Originally Posted by Zichao
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Buddhism is totally about submission - the cause of suffering is desire.
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Is that really even submission? It's not exactly the Divine Right of Kings. A buddhist would probably say, certainly that is the Western way. To desire trivial an unimportant things, to take from them a sense of identity. Realising these things are unimportant brings not submission, but contentment.
And thus, neatly, we've got an anti-consumerist argument every bit as relevent to modernity as it has ever been. Just as sometimes people come back from long hikes, or near-fatal accidents, or the birth of the children, with the realisation that the bulk of what they have hitherto spent their lives chasing is actually essentially worthless.
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Okay, enlightenment can be seen as a moral deal, but pared down to the bare essentials it basically means giving up and enjoying not giving a fuck any more.
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No, it means understanding yourself, and discerning from that what is really imnportant.
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Actually, I'm thinking specifically of Bodhidarma and the Emperor Wu here, and it's true that there are other more folksy/satisfying versions of Buddhism where if you do good stuff and follow the rules you eventually reach Nirvana and everything makes sense, but I just like this one.
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Some even claim to culminate in ascension to an actual heaven. I'm not denying that buddhism has religious elements, but they can in fact all be lopped off and you'd be left with what is in effect a kind of psychological analysis. And given how evidenceless the likes of Freud and Jung are, it wouldn't be qualitatively inferior. at any rate I'm not seeing much about submission in the link you provided, it largely makes sense to me.
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That's actually quite funny. It never occured to me that that would be difficult. It seems to me that there are enough people agitated by one cause or the other and they never seem to have had any difficulty in getting there.
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Well, at any given momne thtere are of course a certain number of people who defect from the status quo. But the fact remains that the overwhelming majority of people accept the status quo. Who's got time to think about what it all means when you're working so many hours and cramming as much fun in the rest to compensate as you can?
As for the koans, there are good ones and bad ones. Some would say that Japanese martial Zen has been pretty egregious in masking junk as wisdom. That is indeed a danger in the form, but even that particular strand is not worthless; frex the "No Mind" doctrine is pretty solid.