These 'slut walk' women are simply fighting for their right to be dirty - Telegraph

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The Toronto policeman who in January told a "personal security class" at York University that "women should avoid dressing like sluts in order not to be victimised" said nothing unusual. What made news was what happened 10 weeks later, when a thousand people hit the streets of downtown Toronto in a "slut walk". That was surprising, but not as surprising as what happened next. Within days, all over North America, in Britain and even in Australia, women came together to organise slut walks of their own. Throughout the English-speaking world, it seems there are hordes of women prepared to sashay round the streets provocatively dressed, making a defiant display of their inner slut. The mind police were not amused. The most sanctimonious of our newspapers solemnly intoned that "women need to take to the streets to condemn violence, but not for the right to be called 'slut' ". But it was not heeded. The women (and men) who are set to prance the streets of dozens of cities in underwear and fetish gear for weeks to come will be taking liberties. That's where liberation begins. Slut-walkers are apt to say that the purpose of their action is to "reclaim the word". It's difficult, probably impossible, to reclaim a word that has always been an insult. And yet here are women spontaneously deciding to adopt it. Before we decide that thousands of our sisters are simply stupid or misguided, an attempt must be made to understand what's going on. The slut walk manifesto states: "Historically, the term 'slut' has carried a predominantly negative association. Aimed at those who were sexually promiscuous, be it for work or pleasure, it has primarily been women who have suffered under the burden of this label. We are tired of being oppressed by slut-shaming; of being judged by our sexuality…" A little knowledge here misleads. Historically, the primary attribute of a slut is not promiscuity but dirt. The word denotes a "woman of dirty, slovenly, or untidy habits or appearance; a foul slattern". A now obsolete meaning connects it with a kitchen maid, whose life was lived in soot and grease. She was too dirty to be allowed above stairs, but drudged out her painful life scraping pans and riddling ash, for 16 hours a day, and then retreated to her squalid lodging where hot water could not be had. The corner she left unswept was the slut corner; the fluff that collected under the furniture was a slut ball. People who thought of sex as dirt suspected the lazy kitchen maid of being unclean in that way as well. Related Articles Half of women think rape victims are to blame 15 Feb 2010 Australian police crack down on 'planking' 12 May 2011 'SlutWalks' protests come to UK 10 May 2011 If the kitchen maid's life was made wretched by the struggle against dirt, the life of the housewife was hardly less so. A woman who didn't hang out her washing when everyone else did, who didn't scrub her front doorstep and windowsills, who didn't scour everything that could be scoured at least once a week, but preferred to gossip with her friends or play with her children in the sun, would also be suspected of being no better than she should be. A man married to a sloven needed to take her in hand if he was not to be generally despised. Twenty-first century women are even more relentlessly hounded and harassed by the threat of dirt. No house is ever clean enough, no matter how many hours its resident woman spends spraying and wiping, Hoovering, dusting, disinfecting and deodorising. Women's bodies can never be washed often enough to be entirely free of dirt; they must be depilated and deodorised as well. When it comes to sex, women are as dirty as the next man, but they don't have the same right to act out their fantasies. If they're to be liberated, women have to demand the right to be dirty. By declaring themselves sluts, they lay down the Cillit Bang and take up the instruments of pleasure. Men already enjoy the right to be dirty. In the usual rugby house, unwashed dishes can be found festering under beds as well as piled to chin height in the sink. The rubbish bin will contain an impacted mess of stomped-down rubbish. The lavatory would be only too accurately described as a bog. The filth becomes a challenge; the first man to crack and grab the Hoover is a sissy. In mixed digs in our tolerant universities, it's the women who are forever cleaning the shared facilities, because the men won't. The con is a simple one. If you don't mind that the toilet's disgusting, then don't clean it; if you do, then do. Girls don't have the option of not minding. Dirty house equals dirty woman equals tramp. If women are to overthrow the tyranny of perpetual cleansing, we have to be able to say: "Yes, I am a slut. My house could be cleaner. My sheets could be whiter. I could be without sexual fantasies too – pure as the untrodden snow – but I'm not. I'm a slut and proud." The rejection by women of compulsory cleansing of mind, body and soul is a necessary pre-condition of liberation. Besides, taking part in what looks like an endless "vicars and tarts' street party is not just bad-ass. It's fun.

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1- We've had that conversation before. I think that, while the policeman certainly phrased it badly, there's an underlying point that is valid. We don't demonstrate in the streets because we have to close our houses and buy some armoured doors... In crime prevention, it always pays to avoid tempting the criminal...

2- I am a sissy with a dirty mind. I have a rather high level of cleanliness expectation when it comes to my abode (although some would disagree and go further but they're a bit maniacal while I am still mentally balanced). But I still like my sex dirty... so while I know of the mythical relationship between body cleanliness and soul cleanliness, it's not something I truly understand/feel in my gut.

3- "Besides, taking part in what looks like an endless "vicars and tarts' street party is not just bad-ass. It's fun." Strongest selling point. Who could possibly dislike an adult-themed Mardi-Gras? I was once in Amsterdam when they had their Gay pride. And I tell ya - "it was ... WOW!"

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For example, the woman in the photo got it wrong. It's not "her hot body to do what she wants with".

Her body actually belongs to the strongest person in the immediate vicinity. The fact that she gets to operate it as she wants most of the time is the result of a long, long, socio-political process that is not natural.

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1- We've had that conversation before. I think that, while the policeman certainly phrased it badly, there's an underlying point that is valid. We don't demonstrate in the streets because we have to close our houses and buy some armoured doors... In crime prevention, it always pays to avoid tempting the criminal...

Prove it. Prove that hot, sexily dressed women get raped more often.

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For example, the woman in the photo got it wrong. It's not "her hot body to do what she wants with". Her body actually belongs to the strongest person in the immediate vicinity. The fact that she gets to operate it as she wants most of the time is the result of a long, long, socio-political process that is not natural.

Well, I'll certainly bear that in mind for the day that we all regress into asocial proto-simians and I own her hot ass. Til then her point stands.

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Originally Posted by Zichao

Prove it. Prove that hot, sexily dressed women get raped more often.

Good point. I can't as I don't have data. To be fair, I think location & circumstances matter more than actual dress. i.e. bad areas are worse than good ones. Getting drunk is worse than staying sober. That type of stuff.

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Well, I'll certainly bear that in mind for the day that we all regress into asocial proto-simians and I own her hot ass. Til then her point stands.

Unless you got a cop in the vicinity to enforce them at gun point, laws are just concepts. What hold most people back from crime is socialisation. It's not a perfect process, by definition.

As with anything, it's just standard risk management. But I tend to get annoyed with talks of "rights" when what they really mean is "privileges". The only inalienable right you got, once you're born, is that you're going to die.

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Good point. I can't as I don't have data. To be fair, I think location & circumstances matter more than actual dress. i.e. bad areas are worse than good ones. Getting drunk is worse than staying sober. That type of stuff.

On a more philosophical level, I'm not really sure that consequences are a useful concept in modern society. Everything's just way too complicated. Like when everything causes cancer it's basically the same as if nothing causes cancer and you might as well carry on as usual.

Might as well get pie-eyed, dress like something out of the Rocky Horror Show and wander through the worst neighbourhood you can find. The complexity of the input data is such that it's impossible to draw any clear links between that and whatever happens next. God knows it's what I do.

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Unless you got a cop in the vicinity to enforce them at gun point, laws are just concepts. What hold most people back from crime is socialisation. It's not a perfect process, by definition. As with anything, it's just standard risk management. But I tend to get annoyed with talks of "rights" when what they really mean is "privileges". The only inalienable right you got, once you're born, is that you're going to die.

Okay, but even if you accept that genetics has no part in it, it's not like society and socialisation are just going to switch off tomorrow.

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Originally Posted by Zichao

Like when everything causes cancer it's basically the same as if nothing causes cancer and you might as well carry on as usual.

People carry on as usual anyhow but it's not like 'everything' causes cancer. The studies are not absolutely clear or uncontroversial but you got the China Study that tends to think that the increase in meat consumption is the root of all health-related evil. Counter-arguments tend to blame high sugar/salt content and highly processed food.

i.e. it is possible to live a lifestyle that allows you to reduce the probability of developing cancer.

Whether that lifestyle is anything fun or whatnot is a slightly different question.

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Might as well get pie-eyed, dress like something out of the Rocky Horror Show and wander through the worst neighbourhood you can find. The complexity of the input data is such that it's impossible to draw any clear links between that and whatever happens next.

I think it's a bit hard to run some experiments on the subject as you might not find enough volunteers (on the women/potentially-raped side, that is). Maybe some analysis of the rape data we do have might help. Out of the total rape figure, what's the percentage of date rape? Acquaintance rape? Spousal rape? Gang rape? "Punitive" rape? Etc.

I mean, I did read that, in France, France for God's sake!, some little beurettes were saying they had decided to always dress in shapeless running pants so as to avoid unwanted attention and harassment from their 'friends' - let's call them 'peers', that would be more correct. If they fear 'punitive' rape for dressing inappropriately, I am willing to guess they're not being entirely delusional...

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Okay, but even if you accept that genetics has no part in it, it's not like society and socialisation are just going to switch off tomorrow.

Genetics has a part in it but cooperation/in-group cohesion is clearly not full-proof. And, obviously, God knows what people actually consider their in-group/out-group. It might change significantly even within the same nation or city. Or neighbourhood. As to switching off socialisation & society, well, that's true - it's there all the time. But, again, it's far from fail-safe & without explicit and direct deterrence, people are quite adept at ignoring its diktats... And that's assuming you're not wandering into a corner of the nation where the locals think punishing women for dressing 'slutishly' is actually what society ought to be about...

Look - it's not just hot women. If I ever end up in jail, I do understand that my ass will belong to the nastier guys in my cell/section. My best chance would be they're not interested coz they don't find me hot....

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I was struck by the number of Not Hot women in the photo.

Thats all I have time for right now.

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So I got around to actually reading the article and

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Slut-walkers are apt to say that the purpose of their action is to "reclaim the word"

Wow, I hope thats not true. Otherwise they're just a bunch of dipshits too.

I had assumed it was just a general excuse to chastise and give the social finger to the cop in a rebellious group setting.

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But I still like my sex dirty...

Which makes the whole slut label a bit hypocritical at times. Acting like a slut is bad... except when its done in a monogamous setting, and with "you" then "we" love "our" little sluts.

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Prove it. Prove that hot, sexily dressed women get raped more often.

I lean towards this sentiment. If it were true, then strippers and porn stars should be getting rapped all the time. Waitresses at certain restaurants as well... models, etc. But i've never heard anyone claim this is true.

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People carry on as usual anyhow but it's not like 'everything' causes cancer. The studies are not absolutely clear or uncontroversial but you got the China Study that tends to think that the increase in meat consumption is the root of all health-related evil. Counter-arguments tend to blame high sugar/salt content and highly processed food. i.e. it is possible to live a lifestyle that allows you to reduce the probability of developing cancer. Whether that lifestyle is anything fun or whatnot is a slightly different question.

Sure, but you might follow all the orders and then get cancer anyway. Or you might cut out milk because it apparently gives the Chinese breast cancer and then get struck down by osteoporosis. Or you might get shot in a bank robbery tomorrow. Who knows?

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I think it's a bit hard to run some experiments on the subject as you might not find enough volunteers (on the women/potentially-raped side, that is). Maybe some analysis of the rape data we do have might help. Out of the total rape figure, what's the percentage of date rape? Acquaintance rape? Spousal rape? Gang rape? "Punitive" rape? Etc. I mean, I did read that, in France, France for God's sake!, some little beurettes were saying they had decided to always dress in shapeless running pants so as to avoid unwanted attention and harassment from their 'friends' - let's call them 'peers', that would be more correct. If they fear 'punitive' rape for dressing inappropriately, I am willing to guess they're not being entirely delusional...

I presumed that they just meant unwanted attention as in "Hé. Bonsoirée, ma soeur. Vous allez où, la?" (wish I could type the accent ) rather than systematic rape...

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Genetics has a part in it but cooperation/in-group cohesion is clearly not full-proof. And, obviously, God knows what people actually consider their in-group/out-group. It might change significantly even within the same nation or city. Or neighbourhood. As to switching off socialisation & society, well, that's true - it's there all the time. But, again, it's far from fail-safe & without explicit and direct deterrence, people are quite adept at ignoring its diktats... And that's assuming you're not wandering into a corner of the nation where the locals think punishing women for dressing 'slutishly' is actually what society ought to be about...

I dunno, I prefer to be deliberately naive and trusting. I think life's nicer that way. Pretty much the only times the policy ever fails is in dealings with the administration.

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Look - it's not just hot women. If I ever end up in jail, I do understand that my ass will belong to the nastier guys in my cell/section. My best chance would be they're not interested coz they don't find me hot....

Don't do yourself down - I'm sure there are no end of lovely boys who'd like to have you as their prison bitch...

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Wow, I hope thats not true. Otherwise they're just a bunch of dipshits too.

Straight up it's true, nigga.

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Which makes the whole slut label a bit hypocritical at times. Acting like a slut is bad... except when its done in a monogamous setting, and with "you" then "we" love "our" little sluts.

Only hypocritical at times? It's also a good thing when it's a guy doing it.

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