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Old 15-04-11, 05:21 PM
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Default Woman who attempted suicide while pregnant is accused of murder

Woman who attempted suicide while pregnant is accused of murder | World news | The Guardian

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A woman accused of murdering her four-day-old baby girl by trying to kill herself with rat poison while pregnant has become a cause c้l่bre for US women's groups and civil liberties organisations.

Bei Bei Shuai, 34, a restaurant owner who moved to the US from China 10 years ago, was pregnant and planning to marry her boyfriend until she learned late last year that he was already married and he would be abandoning her.

A few days later, on 23 December, she went to a hardware store, bought rat poison pellets, went back to her flat in Indianapolis and swallowed some. But she did not die immediately and was persuaded by friends to go to hospital.

She was given treatment to counteract the poison and gave birth on New Year's Eve, but her daughter, Angel, suffered seizures and died after four days.

Shuai then had a second breakdown and spent a month in a psychiatric ward, after which she left to stay with friends and began rebuilding her life.

But in March she was arrested and charged with murder and attempted foeticide. She now faces life imprisonment.

"This case has huge implications for pregnant women, not only in Indiana but across the country," said Alexa Kolbi-Molinas, a lawyer with the American Civil Liberties Union.

"If we allowed the state to put a woman in jail for anything that could pose a risk to her pregnancy, there would be nothing to stop the police putting in jail a woman who has a drink of wine or who smokes. So where do you draw the line?"

Kolbi-Molinas said there had been an alarming rise in the number of such cases across the US. Some women's groups put the rise down to pressure on prosecutors from anti-abortion groups.

Shuai has been held in Marion County jail, Indianapolis, where she is segregated from other prisoners. She was last in court for a bail hearing on Wednesday but the judge, Sheila Carlisle, has not yet ruled whether she will be kept in custody. Carlisle is expected to begin hearing a motion for the case's dismissal next month.

Linda Pence, Shuai's lawyer, described the decision to prosecute her as "horrible" and "outrageous". She disputes the prosecution's claim that the baby died from rat poison, saying that Shuai received a host of medicines at the hospital, many of which could have caused the death.

The National Advocates for Pregnant Women (NAPW) group is helping to mount the defence.

Kathrine Jack, a lawyer with the NAPW, who meets Shuai about once a week, said that after the initial suicide attempt, she had regained hope. "She has been on a rollercoaster," said the lawyer, who argued that women such as Shuai should, rather than being locked up, receive medical and psychiatric help.

Jack, who has been involved in dozens of similar cases where women were charged as a result of incidents while pregnant, said: "Prosecutions like this are increasing in the US and are a result of anti-abortion rhetoric and movements that seek to give the foetus rights above and beyond those of women.

"If it was allowed to stand, it would not outlaw abortion right away but it would be a significant step along the way."

Dave Rimstidt, part of the prosecution team, said careful consideration had gone into the decision to charge Shuai.

"This is a very unique case. Every charging decision is very difficult and goes through a process where we consider all the facts, all the circumstances, and under this situation, we believe we've charged the two charges we can prove," he said.

Utah, Alabama, Mississippi, Iowa and South Carolina are among states to have pressed ahead with cases involving pregnant women and their foetuses, most of which have related to women taking illegal drugs during pregnancy.
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Old 16-04-11, 03:48 AM
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This is wrong on so many levels.

Would that local prosecutors were at least equally aggressive at punishing the men who kill their pregnant partners rather than pay child support. That's also a growth industry in the good ole US of A.
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Old 17-04-11, 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Jayne B View Post

Would that local prosecutors were at least equally aggressive at punishing the men who kill their pregnant partners rather than pay child support. That's also a growth industry in the good ole US of A.
Curious.....do you really believe that?.....I don't suppose you have anything that vaguely resembles evidence do you?.....
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Old 17-04-11, 03:04 PM
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"If we allowed the state to put a woman in jail for anything that could pose a risk to her pregnancy, there would be nothing to stop the police putting in jail a woman who has a drink of wine or who smokes. So where do you draw the line?"

The fuuuuuck?

The story says she was literally a week away from giving birth when she poisoned herself.

I just got done listening to a news cast about dipshits who give their 6-7yr old kids cosmetic plastic surgery and now I read this... no wonder god checked out of here so long ago.
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Old 17-04-11, 03:29 PM
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I dunno why anyone has kids. They ruin your life (not to mention other parts) and everyone suddenly decides you're not a person any more and they know best for you. Fuck that shit. Get a monkey or something.

I guess I wouldn't mind being the dad. That way you don't have to wipe up after them or squeeze them out of your orifices or anything, you can just take them to the park occasionally when you want to pick up women. Plus if you have loads it's a total status symbol/proof of virility. If I could be the guy then I'd have kids.
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Old 18-04-11, 01:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Zichao View Post
I dunno why anyone has kids.
Probably because they had one too many drinks that night.
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Old 23-04-11, 11:19 AM
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I'm sick of all this mutual surveillance ? let's put a stop to the Mummy Wars | Emma Donoghue | Comment is free | The Guardian

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So how are you surviving all that quality time with your children over the Easter
break? Has it been a fortnight of violin practice, family bike rides and teaching them how to sprout bulgur? Or perhaps you checking your email while they goggle at Balamory and Charlie and Lola?

However you've got through your kids' holidays, I won't be judging your parenting skills. It's my new resolution.

It's something I wish more mothers would do: stop telling others how to mother. I'm switching from gender-neutral to gender-specific here because, although I know a lot of highly hands-on fathers, I'd be hard put to it to find two or three actually interested in having long conversations about whether they think of themselves as Tiger Fathers or Panda Dads, Furberizers or Babywearers. This particular specialist subject seems a female preoccupation.

I've been thinking a lot recently about what makes so many mothers invest not only hard-won reading/thinking/blogging time, but also so much emotional energy and their sense of identity, in the Mummy Wars. By which I mean not just the big question of stay at home, go to work, a bit of both or something in between, but all the other decisions too: from Caesareans to feeding to time-outs to toilet training, to when to start charging them rent.

It's on my mind because I'm often asked to clarify whether I intended my novel Room to promote attachment parenting or Christian homeschooling. (Argh. I didn't realize I'd written What to Expect When You're Expecting Your Kidnapper's Baby.) Also, I've been giggling my way through Tina Fey's new memoir, Bossypants. I share her inability to speak frankly to babysitters; I can't even tell ours to turn the kids' lights off at night. And I particularly appreciate her account of being guilt-tripped over breastfeeding.

When it comes to motherhood, our culture has a strange tendency to slide from the descriptive, to the prescriptive, to the proscriptive. From "Ah, look at that baby happily nursing", to "breast is best", to "if you put that bottle in your baby's mouth you'll damage his IQ". Considering that feeding a baby is a choice based on all sorts of factors (from bodies to jobs to family dynamics), it can feel oddly like a criminal matter. In the case of our family, for instance, bottle worked best for the boy and breast for the girl. (But still I couldn't help feeling agonised about the former and smug about the latter.) The same goes for all those other daily decisions. You do the best you can to guess what's going to work for the whole family … but total strangers (as well as close friends, which hurts more) are going to judge you, and even if they don't, the little voices in your head will chime in.

If you're out in public with your kids, it can feel as though the CCTV cameras are always trained your way. Every parent I know jokes about the nightmarish possibility of being reported to Child Protection Services. You can bring down the wrath of a stranger simply by failing to keep a broad-brimmed sunhat on your child or letting her race around with a lollipop in her mouth. You might think that, having defied convention when it came to conception (anonymous donor, two mothers, as I tell anyone at the playground rash enough to ask 'Is their dad tall?'), I'd be relaxed about what people thought of my parenting at the micro-level. But no, I still get that Bad Mum Blush when our daughter bloodies her knee and I – not having a plaster – have to improvise with an old tissue.

And frankly, I'm sick of the mutual surveillance. Surely we can do things differently without forming hostile tribes? I've got friends who bring their babies to the creche at three months, and others who breastfeed them on demand till they're five. Ones who take their kids to Sunday School or Witch Camp, all-inclusive Caribbean resorts or antiwar demos. Even one who won't vaccinate her kids. I know toddlers who nap at the same time every day or never, who spend their nights in their parents' bed or in an electric swing. And the funny thing is, all these kids seem to be growing up just fine.

Raising kids has always been hard work, but I'd bet it's never been quite so self-conscious before. The only parenting manual my mother had was Doctor Spock's, but now a book such as Battle Hymn of the Tiger Mother can whip up a media firestorm, with Amy Chua's dictatorial methods called everything from the lost key to Western success to a form of child abuse. We are so tense about how best to rear the next generation that it leads to absurdities such as a ban on running in school playgrounds.

I suspect this self-consciousness about childrearing is tied to a low birth rate; when I was growing up as one of eight in 1970s Dublin, I don't think my parents were agonizing over exactly which month to introduce me to grains or citrus. It seems to me that the rarer kids are, the more we fuss over them, and allow companies to badger us into buying them more and more elaborate equipment to contain their strangeness.

It must also have something to do with the changed lives of women. Educated mothers with experience of the workplace are bringing an analytical, professional approach to what used to be the simpler business of childrearing. (My favourite scene in Mad Men is still when the kids rush in with plastic bags over their heads and, instead of showing any concern about suffocation, Betty taps her cigarette and snaps, "Have you been messing with my dry-cleaning?") This has effects both sane and silly. We read consumer reports before buying a car seat, fine … but we sometimes we bite a friend's head off for offering our baby a spoonful of non-organic avocado. So I'm going to give up being judgmental. Except …

Yesterday in Toys R Us (where I went, most unwillingly, to buy the three-year-old the purple ZhuZhu Pet she craves for her birthday) there was a little girl – no older than three – in high heels. In fact, in a complete copy of her mother's outfit. My teeth clamped together. I was within an inch of saying, "Excuse me, do you realize you're crippling your child because you're a narcissist?" Only the awareness that it would lead to a strained silence at best, a trashy catfight in the aisles at worst, kept my mouth shut. I talked myself down: she's not beating the little girl's soles with a thorny branch. Probably the kid spends most of the day in trainers and this is just a special dress-up moment. But I was judging, all right. And what annoyed me most was that the little girl looked as happy as Larry.

The tense scrutiny of motherhood begins long before birth. When I was pregnant, I used to feel like a reckless thrill-seeker every time I had Brie (unpasteurized!) on my baguette. Although I don't drink, I was sometimes tempted to order a glass of wine just to see what kind of Cuban-missile-style crisis it would cause. In Indianapolis, Bei Bei Shuai is currently in jail because, during a breakdown triggered by discovering that her fiance was already married, she tried to kill herself with rat poison, and their baby died four days after birth. She's charged with murder, because clearly, in Indiana, a pregnant woman is not a person, just a person-carrier.
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