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Old 10-12-10, 07:55 AM
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Default Prince Charles and Camilla caught up in London violence after student fees vote

Prince Charles and Camilla caught up in London violence after student fees vote

Attack on royal car as tumult grips capital city's centre following MPs' vote for measure trebling English university fees

* Patrick Wintour and Nicholas Watt
* The Guardian, Friday 10 December 2010


A car containing Prince Charles and his wife, Camilla, was attacked last night as a wave of protest swept through central London in the wake of a Commons vote to force through a trebling of university tuition fees for students in England.

Protesters cracked windows and threw paint on the Rolls-Royce after it became separated from its police escort and was surrounded by demonstrators who had spilled into the West End after an initially peaceful demonstration outside parliament rapidly deteriorated and spread.

One, Ben Kelsey, said: "There were 400 to 500 protesters there. It was fairly obvious who was in the car. It was very well lit up. Charles and Camilla looked quite relaxed at first but when they saw how many people there were they began to get worried. A few seconds later the area was packed with police. It was complete chaos."

Another witness described how a police protection officer, dressed in a tuxedo, travelling in convoy with the royal couple opened the doors of his car to beat his way through the crowds.

The royal couple had looked visibly shaken when they arrived at the London Palladium for the Royal Variety performance, but Camilla later joked about the incident, saying: "First time for everything" as she left the theatre.

A Clarence House spokeswoman said: "We can confirm that their royal highnesses' car was attacked by the protesters on the way to their engagement at the London Palladium this evening. Both their royal highnesses were unharmed."

The attack is likely to heighten the pressure on the Met commissioner, Sir Paul Stephenson, whose tactics in the previous demonstrations have been heavily criticised. Stephenson admitted being caught by surprise by the scale of the first protest last month, when demonstrators raided Millbank Tower. At a later protest the police presence was much stronger, leading to complaints about heavyhanded kettling.

Stephenson last night said that it had been a "very long" and "very disappointing day for London". He added: "We did everything we could to facilitate peaceful protest and, in reality, while I'm sure the vast majority came here to want to protest peacefully, a significant number of people behaved very badly today." He said the force will launch a full investigation.

The prime minister, David Cameron, condemned the violence as "unacceptable". "It is shocking and regrettable that the car carrying the Prince of Wales and the Duchess of Cornwall was caught up and attacked in the violence."

Home secretary Theresa May said: "I utterly condemn the increasing levels of violence and disorder that some of the protesters have been, and still are, involved in. What we are seeing in London tonight, the wanton vandalism, smashing of windows, has nothing to do with peaceful protest."

The protests followed the vote over tuition fees in the Commons when 21 Liberal Democrat MPs voted against the plans and five abstained, refusing to follow their leader, Nick Clegg, and other Lib Dem ministers in favour of a new upper limit for fees of £9,000 from 2012, the culmination of an agonising few weeks for the junior party in the coalition.

As news of the vote came through, the demonstration became more heated with fires lit in Parliament Square, rocks thrown at the police, attempts to smash into the Treasury and the supreme court and a surge into the National Gallery's impressionist rooms.

In freezing temperatures, an attempt to burn down the Christmas tree in Trafalgar Square was thwarted, and some Christmas shoppers had to flee the trashing of shop windows on Oxford Street. The violence, at the end of the third in a series of demonstrations against the fee rise, was condemned by the National Union of Students.

The police again penned in demonstrators saying they were dealing with a crime scene. At least eight police officers were injured including one seriously.

The Commons vote came at the end of a serious five-hour debate in which the shadow business secretary, John Denham, warned: "If this Tory measure goes through with the support or abstention of Liberal Democrats, that party will forfeit the right to call itself a progressive political party."

The Lib Dems signed an NUS pledge before the election vowing not to vote for an increase in tuition fees. But the business secretary, Vince Cable, said he was proud of the government's package, and that his party would reunite.

In the wake of the vote, Clegg rushed out a message to party members urging them to reunite: "Of course I understand why many in our party wish we could have pursued a different policy. I wish that too, but we simply were not in that position, we did not win the general election but went into a coalition and had to tackle the greatest economic crisis in decades."

"This is a package which is fairer than the existing situation, fairer than Lord Browne's original review, fairer than the NUS proposals and fairer than the policies that both Labour and the Conservatives would have implemented had they been in government alone."

Although the fees increase will now be voted on in the Lords on Tuesday, there is little or no expectation that the coalition will suffer a defeat, ensuring that the biggest change to university funding for a century will be introduced in 2012.

Cable admitted after the vote that the government hadd failed to get across its central message that the reforms would ensure greater fairness. "We have now to get the message out that we had to put universities on a sound financial footing and we are having to deal with this horrendous problem of the government deficit that we inherited."

"We had to make painful choices affecting universities and other things. But we have done it in a way that makes the system fairer," he said.

We have to explain that so that the next generation feel confident in applying for universities which will be in their long term interests. There is a big job to be done and I will very much be in the thick of that."

Lib Dem cabinet ministers admitted that the party had been damaged over the past week amid confusion over how ministers would vote.

Two Liberal Democrat parliamentary private secretaries, Jenny Willott and Mike Crockart, and one Tory, Lee Scott, resigned in protest.For most of the day the protests in London, attended by several thousand – one protest group claimed as many as 30,000 –demonstrators, were tense but peaceful. Thousands were kettled within Parliament Square for several hours and unable to leave.

Hundreds of riot police stood shoulder to shoulder outside parliament and at the exits to the square, where a small number of protesters clashed with heavily armoured officers and police horses, leading to nine arrests.Police blamed "a continued unprovoked attack by protesters" for the violence and containment, but many demonstrators complained of excessive force, including baton charges on foot and horseback.

At least 38 protesters were injured, according to the Met. There were 26 arrests.

Prince Charles and Camilla caught up in London violence after student fees vote | Education | The Guardian
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Old 10-12-10, 09:32 AM
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Police tactics at tuition fees protest questioned after further angry clashes

At least 38 protesters and 10 officers injured as windows of buildings broken and car carrying Prince Charles attacked

* Esther Addley, Adam Gabbatt and Vikram Dodd
* The Guardian, Friday 10 December 2010

As temperatures fell towards freezing last night hundreds of demonstrators who had been kettled on Westminster Bridge were eventually allowed to leave around 11.30pm after the latest in a series of showdowns between protesters and police over tuition fees turned ugly.

The atmosphere for much of the afternoon had been relaxed and almost cheerful as many among the crowd repeated chants, danced to portable sound systems or huddled around small fires made from burning placards, but at 5.40pm, when news of the MPs' historic decision reached the crowds gathered in Whitehall, it took a turn for the worse.

Within an hour, the scuffles that had been erupting all afternoon escalated into more violent confrontations, windows were broken at several buildings including the Treasury and supreme court and Winston Churchill's statue was vandalised. The violence spread as protesters apparently caught police unaware and moved towards Oxford Street.

On nearby Regent Street, a car carrying Prince Charles and the Duchess of Cornwall was attacked as they headed for the Royal Variety Performance at the London Palladium, with a window of the vehicle being cracked in the violence. Paint was also thrown and splattered the car.

The violence poses questions for the Metropolitan police commissioner, Sir Paul Stephenson, over his force's tactics.

Superintendent Julia Pendry said the police had not lost control of the capital. "We are in control," she said. "There was no intelligence to suggest we were going to have rampaging people." She condemned the "wanton violence and wanton criminal damage".

The Met said: "Police completely condemn the outrageous and increasing levels of violence that some of the protesters are now involved in. This has nothing to do with peaceful protest. Students are involved in wanton vandalism including smashing windows in Oxford and Regent streets. Innocent Christmas shoppers are being caught up in the violence."

At least 38 protesters and 10 officers were injured. Six officers required hospital treatment, Scotland Yard confirmed. There were 26 arrests: one for drunk and disorderly, three for criminal damage, two for arson, 12 for violent disorder, four for assault on police and four for burglary.

As the night progressed, those who remained at Parliament Square were surrounded by police officers in riot gear. Hundreds tried to get out of the square but were contained by police at all exits.

For much of the afternoon, protesters had been kettled inside the square, unable to leave and sporadically pushed back by officers on foot and horseback.

Then as night fell they were shepherded on to Westminster Bridge. Zoe Walsh, 22, a student at Warwick University, said: "We were kettled on the bridge from 9.30 until 11pm. They said they would let us out over the bridge, but then kettled us in on both ends. It was really, really tight, absolutely freezing, there was no space, basically.

"Everyone waited quietly. They wouldn't give us any information on when we'd get off – one policeman said, 'I'm not allowed to tell you anything' when I asked how long it'd be."

Gabriel Lukes, 14, left Dunraven school in south London on his own to join in the march. He was kettled in Parliament Square before being moved to Westminster Bridge just after 9pm. He stood alone for two hours before being allowed off at 11pm. His father Peter was waiting for him. "It was cold, cramped, you had like half a metre to yourself," he said. "It was just terrible."

Bernard Goyder, 19, a history student at Soas, said: "We were penned in on both sides of the bridge by police in full riot gear. I would estimate there were at least 200 on either side, kettling a crowd of well over a thousand. They finally let us out at about 11.10pm, but we had to walk out in single file past a line of police – I think they were looking to identify people they'd spotted earlier and grab them.

"The conditions on the bridge were atrocious. There were no toilet facilities, and we were held there for two hours with about as much space as in a crowded lift.

"I think it's a form of collective punishment by the police. I overheard one say it served us right for the trouble we'd caused earlier.

"I think people are still being kettled at Trafalgar Square. This is a travesty of democracy."

One of the protest groups involved claimed 30,000 had attended the march, although for much of the afternoon the number appeared significantly lower.

"Police resorted to kettling tactics and horse-charged once again, and thousands of students, including young teenagers, are still being detained," said a spokesman for the Coalition of Resistance. "Appeals from the organisers of the demonstration not to use these tactics were ignored."

One man was pulled twice from his wheelchair by police for being too close to their lines. Finlay McIntyre told the Guardian that his brother Jody was at one point pulled from his chair and dragged bodily across the ground by officers when they were deemed to be too close to police horses.

Shiv Malik, a freelance journalist, was treated in hospital for a head wound after he was hit by a police baton during a charge. He said two officers, including a police medic, had refused to help him and he was sent across the square to find another exit, from where he was able to make his way to hospital.

For much of the day the atmosphere around parliament, where most of the early protesters gathered, was calm. The first sporadic outbreak of violence began at around 3.30pm when a group of around 20 protesters, all clad in black with balaclavas covering their faces, charged the police lines with a pre-prepared metal battering ram. The core group of protesters broke through, triggering ugly scenes as protesters and police fought in small isolated groups.

After police reclaimed their line across the street leading from the square, some protesters continued to clash with officers, hurling sticks and paint, while police responded by lashing out with batons, and charging at speed on horseback.

Earlier, in the opposite corner of the square a group of schoolboys, still in uniform after walking out of classes in the morning, hurled sticks, eggs and firecrackers at police, while starting a small fire using toilet roll, placards and a GCSE mock economics exam.

Thomas Shephard, an MA student who had come from Liverpool and whose friend carried a placard reading "Cameron you are a douche", said the flashpoints at the cordons were "really horrible and irresponsible" and dismissed the small number of troublemakers as "idiots".

He added: "We've had protests in the past with large numbers of people and that has just been ignored.

"Disruption like this sends a message, even if I don't agree with people who are throwing stuff. I also wholly disagree with police being really harsh with reasonable people like the rest of us."

Sly Gullick and Oscar Lyons, both 16 and year 11 students from Stratford in east London, had brought a pack of cards and were playing a few hands with female friends.

Gullick said: "I want to go to university and I'm not sure that I will ever be able to afford it if these cuts go through."

Some made impassioned philosophical arguments for the importance of universal education, while others carried good-humoured placards reading "Don't be a dick" or "Down with this kind of thing".'

Police tactics at tuition fees protest questioned after further angry clashes | Education | The Guardian
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Old 10-12-10, 09:38 AM
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'Violence is OK, if that's what it takes to make our mark'

By Richard Garner, Kevin Rawlinson and Sarah Morrison

Friday, 10 December 2010



The mood was angrier than it was last time, as thousands of demonstrators seized their final opportunity to persuade MPs to scrap plans for an increase in tuition fees.

One sixth-former talked of violence being acceptable "if that's what it takes to make our mark".

They laid siege to the House of Commons in a determined attempt to storm the seat of government. Thwarted, they turned their anger on the nearby Treasury building in Whitehall – bombarding it with missiles, including flares, sticks and snooker balls.

One estimate put the number of protesters at more than 30,000.

There were prolonged clashes, as protesters seeking to storm the Commons fought to break police lines.

Earlier, mounted police had charged protesters and thousands were contained in "kettles" outside Parliament.

The day had started peacefully but, whereas last week's march had a mischievous air to it as protesters led police a merry dance in the snow, yesterday there was a determined and purposeful atmosphere as thousands set off from the University of London.

They had been allowed to march through Trafalgar Square and down towards Buckingham Palace, before turning to head for the Houses of Parliament as MPs debated the issue.

There the march halted as police and stewards alike tried unsuccessfully to direct it up Whitehall.

The crowds, only "vaguely" under the stewards' control, according to eye-witnesses, just refused to comply.

Barriers had been erected by police, stopping protesters crossing the road in front of Parliament and getting on to the grass in the centre of the square. But protesters tore them down and bonfires were soon burning under the shadow of Winston Churchill's statue. It was then daubed with graffiti, saying: "Fuck police", "Clegg eat shit" and "Education for the masses". As it became clear it was impossible to break through police lines, protesters turned their attention to the Victoria Street entrance to the square, where lines of police had blocked the road. They again started throwing missiles and, after a lot of pushing and shoving, mounted police were sent in.

"I was terrified. My heart was pounding when the horses came towards me," said one student who refused to be named.

Julyan Phillips, 23, whose face was covered with blood as he staggered away from the melée, said: "I was in the front line. People were trying to push forwards. I had my hand behind my back and was shouting at the officers that I was not trying to resist and one of them just decided to baton me. He gave me no warning. A few people around me were hurt.

"All the rises in tuition fees will do is perpetuate the divide between the rich and the poor," he added.

James Samuel, 17, a London sixth-former going to university next year, said: "I have seen a girl get trampled and people squeezed against the fences. I think violence by the protesters is OK if that's what it takes to get things done. It's about time the English showed their passion for issues. This is our last chance to show them that the vote is not OK."

Nigel David, 18, from Preston, Lancashire, said: "I feel there's a whole overtone about what the Tories are doing to this country: their idea of cutting things; removing key components of the welfare state; making it harder for people from underprivileged backgrounds to move up the ladder."

Police said that "extreme violence" against officers had led to peaceful protesters being refused permission to leave the square.

Protests around the country

Glasgow

Several hundred students and school pupils braved the snow to demonstrate in Glasgow city centre, winning a pledge from the Scottish Assembly that students would not have to pay the rises if they studied north of the border. Students and lecturers from a number of Scottish universities left an occupation at Glasgow University's Gilmorehill Theatre to trudge through the snow. A similar demonstration took place in Edinburgh.

Newcastle

Children as young as 11 marched alongside pensioners as up to 3,000 people took to the streets. The crowds were given a standing ovation as they marched past the civic offices in the city centre in what was described as a "carnival atmosphere". Many pupils had left school between lessons to join in the protest.

Swansea

About 50 students took part in a noisy rally in the city centre, banging drums, singing, waving banners and shouting slogans against the planned fees rises. The students were mainly from Swansea Metropolitan University and the University of Swansea.

Belfast

There was a largely good-natured demonstration involving nearly 200 people marching on Belfast City Hall. They began chanting as they approached the building.

'Violence is OK, if that's what it takes to make our mark' - UK Politics, UK - The Independent
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Old 10-12-10, 04:45 PM
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4.26pm: My colleagues Alex Macpherson and Andy Beckett both attended the protests.

Alex writes:

This was not containment of violent protesters – the line disingenuously suggested by Met commissioner Sir Paul Stephenson and run by that a disturbing proportion of an inadequate and cowardly media. It was an unjustifiable and illegal means of punishing wholly non-violent and rather docile protesters – chants included "This is not a riot" and "We are peaceful, what are you?"; protesters put their hands up in unison to signal non-violent intent – in pretty much the coldest, most uncomfortable place possible. It was roughly the sixth hour of the kettling protesters – many of whom, it can't be restated enough, were children ...

It seemed more to be motivated by traditional aims of kettling that are rarely stated: to demoralise protesters so much that they are dissuaded from taking part again, and to exhaust them physically so that they go home quietly (not that there was any need for the latter by this stage of the night). While queueing to leave Parliament Square, a woman next to me jokingly told a police officer that if they let us go, she would promise that this would be her last demonstration. The officer replied, "That's the point."

Tuition fees protests and Charles and Camilla attack aftermath ? live | Education | guardian.co.uk

--

As anyone who has experienced the police attitude in such circumstances would be well aware, that is precisely the point. The aim is to make the act of demonstrating an unpleasant experience, and it has never been deployed purely to contain violence; indeed quite often kettling produces violence as the people trapped inside try to break out.

It's also very different from old fashioned head-busting to dissperse a demo, because when cops are doing that, although some innocent people may well get caught up in it, the majority just head away as fast as possible, and the ones who stay to fght do so by choice and inclination. Kettling obviously prevents anyone from leaving, so it applies a form of collective punishment. It makes it clear that the police are not primarily concerned with violence by protesters as such, it is the protest itself which they are acting against.
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Old 11-12-10, 11:57 PM
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How's breaking stuff going to make fees go down?
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Old 12-12-10, 09:43 AM
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Originally Posted by contracycle View Post
Indeed quite often kettling produces violence as the people trapped inside try to break out.
The one I got caught in and the other one I saw were pretty peaceful. I don't think kettling really induces violence because the cops are so much more overpowering once they are ranged in formation. And the argument that it contains violence towards objects/property in a limited area has been proven relatively correct since the one demo they didn't kettled went "violent" over a wide area...

Quote:
It's also very different from old fashioned head-busting to dissperse a demo, because when cops are doing that, although some innocent people may well get caught up in it, the majority just head away as fast as possible, and the ones who stay to fght do so by choice and inclination.
And it does give bad PR to the police. Unlike what the Army can do with brownish/dark people, they don't get to qualify that the few innocents they stomped to death are just acceptable collateral damage...

Quote:
Kettling obviously prevents anyone from leaving, so it applies a form of collective punishment. It makes it clear that the police are not primarily concerned with violence by protesters as such, it is the protest itself which they are acting against.
Yes. For two reasons - One is that the police can't really differenciate between peaceful and non-peaceful demonstrators. And, two, demonstrations are tough to police, the police is lazy like everyone else so they try and make their jobs simpler for the future... Less future demos, less hard work for them...
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Old 12-12-10, 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Gilles de Rais View Post
The one I got caught in and the other one I saw were pretty peaceful. I don't think kettling really induces violence because the cops are so much more overpowering once they are ranged in formation. And the argument that it contains violence towards objects/property in a limited area has been proven relatively correct since the one demo they didn't kettled went "violent" over a wide area...
Of course they were peaceful; demonstrations in huge majority always are. But I have twice personally seen those seem people attempt to break out once kettled.

Quote:
And it does give bad PR to the police. Unlike what the Army can do with brownish/dark people, they don't get to qualify that the few innocents they stomped to death are just acceptable collateral damage...
Unlike thousands of 14-year olds going home with a story of how they were maltreated?

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Yes. For two reasons - One is that the police can't really differenciate between peaceful and non-peaceful demonstrators.
Well I fail to see why not. There are those throwing things, etc, and those just standing around. Not exactly rocket science.

Quote:
And, two, demonstrations are tough to police, the police is lazy like everyone else so they try and make their jobs simpler for the future... Less future demos, less hard work for them...
Quite so. Which is why the right to demonstrated has to be actively defended, or it decays into the convenience of the state.
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Old 12-12-10, 06:42 PM
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Originally Posted by contracycle View Post
Unlike thousands of 14-year olds going home with a story of how they were maltreated?
Kettling is still not seen as as bad as broken bones and fractured skulls...

Quote:
Well I fail to see why not. There are those throwing things, etc, and those just standing around. Not exactly rocket science.
I am sure they say the same thing with guerilla wars in Army manual. "Look, it's easy, if he's got a AK47 and is shooting, he's a terrorist. Otherwise, he's just a peasant". Yeah, right.

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Quite so. Which is why the right to demonstrated has to be actively defended, or it decays into the convenience of the state.
By all means. I don't believe in them personally but feel free. The French do it all the time and in the great scheme of things, it is neither here nor there.
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Old 12-12-10, 07:21 PM
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I like this comparison of citizens publicly demonstrating their displeasure with austerity measures to terrorist murdering people.

If there is a doomsday clock for the police state, it just moved ahead another minute.
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Old 12-12-10, 10:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Gilles de Rais View Post
Kettling is still not seen as as bad as broken bones and fractured skulls...
Once again, by whom? It has come in for a great deal of criticism over the last few years, as it has vbecome a standard tactic. Plus you understimate thew willingness of people to blame the victim and to assume that someone getting beaten by the cops must have deserved it; kettling, precisely becuase it is a collective punishment, raises different questions.

Quote:
I am sure they say the same thing with guerilla wars in Army manual. "Look, it's easy, if he's got a AK47 and is shooting, he's a terrorist. Otherwise, he's just a peasant". Yeah, right.
The difference being that it only matters while the demonstration is ongoing; it is not a war in which a demonstrator is subsequently going to go home and try to set fire to the local police station.

Quote:
By all means. I don't believe in them personally but feel free. The French do it all the time and in the great scheme of things, it is neither here nor there.
it is one of the most important components of the checks and balances of our western "democracies".
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