TheNewTopical.com - current events, politics, culture, ethics, economics discussion forum  

Go Back   TheNewTopical.com - current events, politics, culture, ethics, economics discussion forum » Main Forum » Politics

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 04-12-11, 11:18 AM
contracycle's Avatar
Senior Member
 

Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 6,150
Default Where is the Left?

Where is the Left?
Posted: 2/12/11 11:07 GMT
Roifield Brown

Its 2011. The US credit rating has been downgraded, Italy has a government with no elected MPs, the Euro is imploding and the organised left across the globe is mute. Its silence is almost deafening. In Britain, the Labour party talks about the squeezed middle but no over arching theories as the UK teeters on the edge of a double dip recession. In the US, there is mainstream agreement that the majority have have been left behind in the search for American dream as outlined by the various Occupy movements. However the Democratic party is either unable or unwilling to wholeheartedly articulate the movements message of frustration and anger into policy.

The last time the world entered a period where banks and nations went bust, there were three choices, Communism, more of the same or Fascism. In the 1930's you had, black and white with a little grey inbetween. Leaders offered not only hope, certainty and hate but also vision. They said things could and would get better. In mainland Europe the way to reinvigorate the economy was to build armaments and autobahns and to hate your neighbours, to build walls around your boarders, economy and your mind. This lead to gas chambers and world war. There was another vision, FDR dragged America from the brink of revolution with a concept of American expectionalism, that his nation could conquer its fears and its wild hinterland, that Americans could bring water to the desert, that ideas and its sweat could fertilise barren land. In the 30's leaders led.

Now with a failed Super Congressional committee, political deadlock in Greece, record levels of youth unemployment across Europe and with riot police pepper spraying college kids peacefully demonstrating, where is the vision to join the dots and explain the times? No political party the world over has a way out of the current morass and no one is willing or able to articulate a path back from worldwide economic stagnation. The best we have is pain now, probably tomorrow and for the immediate future. All strata of mainstream political thought seems to agree: lets pay bond holders not to foreclose on nation states, then get those nations to slash public services to pay the bond holders. Is there no other alternative? Japan entered a asset price bubble recession in 1991, similar to the 2008 crash, it's still mired in stagnation 20 years later. Our political elite has never looked so threadbare as today and in hock to money markets and speculators.

The situation for the right, whether it is The Republicans, The Conservatives in the UK or Christian Democrats across Europe is, either ignore the underlying issues of depression, stagnation and wealth inequality or to tinker around the edges. The Republicans running for the White House have gone for option one. "Get yourself a job" Herman Cain and Newt Gingrich shout. There must be 9 million jobs in the US somewhere doing a very good job of hiding themselves from all and sundry. In the UK Cameron has taken on the guise of a social liberal, "I'm for gay marriage", "I know there is an issue with Youth unemployment". But these attitudes mask any real substantive ideas or change, the autumn statement underlined that.

The position of the left is more worrying. If you can't make a coherent case for economic change when the bond markets are pushing up the interest rates on nation states to the point of bankruptcy, youth unemployment is rising throughout the Western world and governments have bailed out banks, it may be time to admit that the politicians of the left lack are ideology vacant. Or that the time is up for left of centre politics from Arizona to Australia.

The Occupy movements around the world have proved that there is deep mistrust of the economic status quo, they are a neat parallel to the Jarrow marches and the Hoovervilles of seventy years ago. With no elected leaders and without pointed prescriptions these movements have not only sprung up and weathered rain, ridicule and riot police but have done this with no left of centre party able to nail its colours to the cause and frame a set of polices to address their concerns.

The logical conclusion of the impotence of progressive policy makers is creating a vacuum in the political spectrum around the globe. This situation is almost Fukiyama-like, an "End of Politics". There is no left, no framing of a counter vision or set of ideas that people can rally to in the current crisis. The alignment of left and right, of western politics that started with the French revolution may well be over, now the only question is how reactionary are your policies? We are entering a world where only wealth matters and governments are headed by unelected officials and millionaires hell bent on managing the interests of the few and hoping that the many do not notice. Anyone for cake? Its 1789.

Roifield Brown: Where is the Left?
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 04-12-11, 10:29 PM
Catwoman's Avatar
Cat Ninja
 

Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 101
Default

Where is the left? The left have been demonised by the murdoch press so much so the working classes of this countryhave been brain washed against the left. But then again when the left were popular they were self serving bunch.
__________________
“Some people like the Jews, and some do not. But no thoughtful man can deny the fact that they are, beyond any question, the most formidable and the most remarkable race which has appeared in the world.”

- Winston Churchill - Prime Minister of Great Britain
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 05-12-11, 11:44 AM
Gilles de Rais's Avatar
Moderator
 

Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 7,639
Default

I think it's impressive to see Ed Milliband still ashamed/scared to be seen as "left-wing". I mean, Cameron used it as an insult and I suspect he kind of knew what he was doing...

In the UK, there is still some lingering bad memories associated with the left-wing stuff and, indeed, the whole New Labour strategy was to dissociate from it.
__________________
Unless otherwise specified, I am posting as a regular poster. When I will act as a mod, I'll make sure you're in no doubt.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 05-12-11, 09:16 PM
contracycle's Avatar
Senior Member
 

Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 6,150
Default

... and New Labour lost half their membership and even more of their activists.

As it happens, just cam back from seeing Ken Livingstoe at a small meeting, he said he feels a lot more comfortable in the Labour Party now than he did recently, and that he could work with Miliband.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 05-12-11, 09:21 PM
AnonymousIdiotSavant's Avatar
Senior Member
 

Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,089
Default

Where is the left?

<---
__________________
Righteousness will always be the trap at the gates of hell
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 06-12-11, 09:48 AM
Gilles de Rais's Avatar
Moderator
 

Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 7,639
Default

Originally Posted by contracycle View Post
... and New Labour lost half their membership and even more of their activists.

As it happens, just cam back from seeing Ken Livingstoe at a small meeting, he said he feels a lot more comfortable in the Labour Party now than he did recently, and that he could work with Miliband.
Sure. But it worked for a while. If there hadn't been a crisis, New Labour would still be the strategy...

Btw, I was just reading in the Evening Standard about a poll saying that the majority of people still trusted Cameron/Osborne to handle the economy correctly more than they trusted Milliband/Balls...

I am just pointing out this because it goes to show that the Left message isn't still echoing as clearly as you'd think reading polls about people's disgust with the present system.
__________________
Unless otherwise specified, I am posting as a regular poster. When I will act as a mod, I'll make sure you're in no doubt.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 06-12-11, 10:03 AM
contracycle's Avatar
Senior Member
 

Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 6,150
Default

Originally Posted by Gilles de Rais View Post
Sure. But it worked for a while. If there hadn't been a crisis, New Labour would still be the strategy...
No it wouldn't. It was fucking stupid from the start, and the weakness in its support was clear long before the crisis. It's more accurate to say that inertia the incumbent effect, was keeping Labour in power rather than active support, and the crisis disrupted that inertia.

Quote:
I am just pointing out this because it goes to show that the Left message isn't still echoing as clearly as you'd think reading polls about people's disgust with the present system.
Well, when Labour's proposition is to make only £17 of cuts for every £18 of Tory cuts, and to impose school fees of "only" two thirds of the current governments, there's hardly much to tell between them.
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 06-12-11, 10:22 AM
Gilles de Rais's Avatar
Moderator
 

Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 7,639
Default

Originally Posted by contracycle View Post
No it wouldn't. It was fucking stupid from the start, and the weakness in its support was clear long before the crisis. It's more accurate to say that inertia the incumbent effect, was keeping Labour in power rather than active support, and the crisis disrupted that inertia.
Well, inertia is good enough. And the Iraq war was very clearly a mistake that did alienate people. Without that and the crisis, Labour could have held on for another decade or two...


Quote:
Well, when Labour's proposition is to make only £17 of cuts for every £18 of Tory cuts, and to impose school fees of "only" two thirds of the current governments, there's hardly much to tell between them.
And people still trust the Conservatives more. That's just scary...
__________________
Unless otherwise specified, I am posting as a regular poster. When I will act as a mod, I'll make sure you're in no doubt.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 06-12-11, 10:51 AM
contracycle's Avatar
Senior Member
 

Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 6,150
Default

Originally Posted by Gilles de Rais View Post
Well, inertia is good enough. And the Iraq war was very clearly a mistake that did alienate people. Without that and the crisis, Labour could have held on for another decade or two...
As long as nothing upset the applecart; as long, that is, as boom and bust had really been abolished.

Quote:
And people still trust the Conservatives more. That's just scary...
I think it's pretty predictable. I've mentioned before that there is good reason to expect it - when the strategy is to ape the conservatives, the danger is always that the electorate will decide that having the real thing is better than having a half-hearted copy. And the Labour party has done this sort of thing a couple of times before, to the point that it is an identifiable pattern.

Last edited by Gilles de Rais; 06-12-11 at 10:58 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 06-12-11, 02:05 PM
Gilles de Rais's Avatar
Moderator
 

Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 7,639
Default

Slightly related: Yes, it's Krugman so some will dislike his tone but the highlighted part, I really like - It shows how unrealistic huge swath of the electorates are...

Send in the Clueless
By PAUL KRUGMAN
Published: December 4, 2011

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/05/op...R_AP_LO_MST_FB


There are two crucial things you need to understand about the current state of American politics. First, given the still dire economic situation, 2012 should be a year of Republican triumph. Second, the G.O.P. may nonetheless snatch defeat from the jaws of victory — because Herman Cain was not an accident.

Think about what it takes to be a viable Republican candidate today. You have to denounce Big Government and high taxes without alienating the older voters who were the key to G.O.P. victories last year — and who, even as they declare their hatred of government, will balk at any hint of cuts to Social Security and Medicare (death panels!).

And you also have to denounce President Obama, who enacted a Republican-designed health reform and killed Osama bin Laden, as a radical socialist who is undermining American security.

So what kind of politician can meet these basic G.O.P. requirements? There are only two ways to make the cut: to be totally cynical or totally clueless.

Mitt Romney embodies the first option. He’s not a stupid man; he knows perfectly well, to take a not incidental example, that the Obama health reform is identical in all important respects to the reform he himself introduced in Massachusetts — but that doesn’t stop him from denouncing the Obama plan as a vast government takeover that is nothing like what he did. He presumably knows how to read a budget, which means that he must know that defense spending has continued to rise under the current administration, but this doesn’t stop him from pledging to reverse Mr. Obama’s “massive defense cuts.”

Mr. Romney’s strategy, in short, is to pretend that he shares the ignorance and misconceptions of the Republican base. He isn’t a stupid man — but he seems to play one on TV.

Unfortunately from his point of view, however, his acting skills leave something to be desired, and his insincerity shines through. So the base still hungers for someone who really, truly believes what every candidate for the party’s nomination must pretend to believe. Yet as I said, the only way to actually believe the modern G.O.P. catechism is to be completely clueless.

And that’s why the Republican primary has taken the form it has, in which a candidate nobody likes and nobody trusts has faced a series of clueless challengers, each of whom has briefly soared before imploding under the pressure of his or her own cluelessness. Think in particular of Rick Perry, a conservative true believer who seemingly had everything it took to clinch the nomination — until he opened his mouth.

So will Newt Gingrich suffer the same fate? Not necessarily.

Many observers seem surprised that Mr. Gingrich’s, well, colorful personal history isn’t causing him more problems, but they shouldn’t be. If hypocrisy is the tribute vice pays to virtue, conservatives often seem inclined to accept that tribute, voting for candidates who publicly espouse conservative moral principles whatever their personal behavior. Did I mention that David Vitter is still in the Senate?

And Mr. Gingrich has some advantages none of the previous challengers had. He is by no means the deep thinker he imagines himself to be, but he’s a glib speaker, even when he has no idea what he’s talking about. And my sense is that he’s also very good at doublethink — that even when he knows what he’s saying isn’t true, he manages to believe it while he’s saying it. So he may not implode like his predecessors.

The larger point, however, is that whoever finally gets the Republican nomination will be a deeply flawed candidate. And these flaws won’t be an accident, the result of bad luck regarding who chose to make a run this time around; the fact that the party is committed to demonstrably false beliefs means that only fakers or the befuddled can get through the selection process.

Of course, given the terrible economic picture and the tendency of voters to blame whoever holds the White House for bad times, even a deeply flawed G.O.P. nominee might very well win the presidency. But then what?

The Washington Post quotes an unnamed Republican adviser who compared what happened to Mr. Cain, when he suddenly found himself leading in the polls, to the proverbial tale of the dog who had better not catch that car he’s chasing. “Something great and awful happened, the dog caught the car. And of course, dogs don’t know how to drive cars. So he had no idea what to do with it.”

The same metaphor, it seems to me, might apply to the G.O.P. pursuit of the White House next year. If the dog actually catches the car — the actual job of running the U.S. government — it will have no idea what to do, because the realities of government in the 21st century bear no resemblance to the mythology all ambitious Republican politicians must pretend to believe. And what will happen then?
__________________
Unless otherwise specified, I am posting as a regular poster. When I will act as a mod, I'll make sure you're in no doubt.
Reply With Quote
Reply


(View-All Members who have read this thread : 6
AnonymousIdiotSavant, Catwoman, contracycle, FredFredson, Gilles de Rais, Zichao
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 04:50 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2012, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0