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Old 12-01-11, 05:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Zichao View Post
On the porn issue you insist that there's no proof, on this one you're saying that we can't take the risk that there might be a link...
Not quite. I am saying that a more rational and adult debate can't really hurt - In terms of public utility, there is little upside to having raving maniacs (or pretended raving maniacs) as TV hosts.

There is a public utility to porn - It gives plenty of people something to masturbate to.
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Old 12-01-11, 05:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Zichao View Post
Euh... euh... euh... If she keeps saying stuff this retarded the next elections are going to be a total holocaust for her.
1- Is this a call to exterminate her?
2- Is that not your position, essentially? One of unlimited personal responsibility?
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Old 12-01-11, 06:53 PM
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I just meant that "blood libel" isn't the most diplomatic phrase she could possibly have chosen. It also just plain doesn't make much sense.
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Old 12-01-11, 07:24 PM
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Palin's use of 'blood libel' and Reagan comment in statement on Tucson shooting
Palin's use of 'blood libel' and Reagan comment in statement on Tucson shooting - Fact Checker

Sarah Palin's video statement on the Tucson shootings is an interesting example of how meanings can change over time and can be ripped from their original context. This was obviously a well-crafted statement, not something said off the cuff, so Palin and her advisors certainly thought carefully about whether to include these elements. In the new Fact Checker, from time to time we will provide context for the terms that politicians use without awarding any Pinocchios.
Blood Libel

"If you don't like their ideas, you're free to propose better ideas. But, especially within hours of a tragedy unfolding, journalists and pundits should not manufacture a blood libel that serves only to incite the very hatred and violence they purport to condemn. That is reprehensible."
--Sarah Palin

The term "blood libel" has a very distinct history. It refers to the false accusation, dating back centuries, that Jews would sacrifice Christian children for various nefarious or even religious purposes -- such as using their blood as an ingredient in the unleavened bread in Passover ceremonies. It was a core tenet of anti-Semitism, widely believed in medieval times and beyond, and often resulted in persecution, murders and other actions against Jews. A pro-Israel website lists more than two dozen examples of blood libel against Jews over the centuries, including as recently as 2005 in Russia.

Palin's use of the term has sparked controversy, in part because she is not Jewish and has often spoken of the United States as a Christian nation -- and because the target of the alleged shooter, Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, is Jewish. The liberal pro-Israel group J Street tweeted, "We hope @SarahPalinUSA will recog that Jews are pained by, take offense at use of 'blood libel'"

But the "blood libel" phrase had already been used in the context of the Tucson tragedy. The conservative commentator Glenn Reynolds first raised it in an opinion article in the Wall Street Journal on Monday, asking, "Where is the decency in blood libel?" Others on the right picked up the phrase as well, leading conservative commentator Jonah Goldberg to wonder if this was appropriate.

"Historically, the term is almost invariably used to describe anti-Semitic myths about how Jews use blood -- usually from children -- in their rituals. I agree entirely with Glenn's, and now Palin's, larger point. But I'm not sure either of them intended to redefine the phrase, or that they should have," he wrote.

But Jim Geraghty, another commentator on National Review, has quickly collected many other examples of commentators and politicians using the phrase "blood libel" out of context. His examples include references to Sen. John Kerry's testimony to the Senate as Vietnam War veteran and the recount battle in Florida after the 2000 election.

None of those examples, of course, involved such a high-profile individual as Palin. Now that she has used it, the attention surrounding the phrase might yank it back to its origins -- or turn it into a new political talking point increasingly divorced from its original meaning.

Quoting Reagan

"President Reagan said, 'We must reject the idea that every time a law's broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for his actions.'"--Sarah Palin

This is a favorite quote of conservatives, as it speaks to individual responsibility. But few people remember when Reagan said it--or why.

The answer is July 31, 1968, at the platform hearings of the Republican convention in Miami that nominated Richard M. Nixon as the GOP candidate against then Vice President Hubert Humphrey. Reagan would not get elected until 12 years later, but his appearance before the platform hearings was a sensation and helped launch the fervor on the right that ultimately took him to the presidency.

But he made his remarks in the middle of a debate over the urban riots that had swept the nation in the aftermath of the assassination of Martin Luther King Jr. Some in the party, such as New York Mayor John Lindsay, argued to the platform committee that policies that would help end poverty and racism were needed to stem urban violence. Reagan disagreed, saying society was not the root of crime and suggesting that Democrats had coddled criminals, ignoring the victims.

Reagan, to cheers, argued that "it is too simple to trace all crime to poverty or color. There is a crime problem in the suburbs as well as in the slums and the minority communities are victims of crime out of all proportion to their numbers. Criminals are not bigoted and they are not color blind; they...rob and maim and murder without reference to race, religion or neighborhood boundaries."

Then he made the statement that Palin cited approvingly. But Reagan was not talking about mass murderers or "acts of monstrous criminality," as Palin put it. He was arguing against more social-welfare programs.


Posted on January 12, 2011 at 12:30 PM ET |
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Old 12-01-11, 07:32 PM
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U.S. Jewish leaders slam Sarah Palin's blood libel accusation
NJDC, Jewish Funds for Justice say choice of phrase inappropriate, ADL say term 'blood libel' is 'fraught with pain in Jewish history.'
By Natasha Mozgovaya

U.S. Jewish leaders slam Sarah Palin's blood libel accusation - Haaretz Daily Newspaper | Israel News

Tags: Israel news US Jewish World Sarah Palin ADL
United States Jewish leaders condemned Wednesday Sarah Palin's statement comparing the accusations against her in the wake of the shooting attack on Democratic Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords to blood libel, a centuries-old claim that Jews use the blood of Christian children in religious rites.

The National Jewish Democratic Council (NJDC) President and CEO David A. Harris said in a statement. "Perhaps Sarah Palin honestly does not know what a blood libel is, or does not know of their horrific history; that is perhaps the most charitable explanation we can arrive at in explaining her rhetoric today."

"This [blood libel] is of course a particularly heinous term for American Jews, given that the repeated fiction of blood libels are directly responsible for the murder of so many Jews across centuries -- and given that blood libels are so directly intertwined with deeply ingrained anti-Semitism around the globe, even today", Harris added.

President of Jewish Funds for Justice Simon Greer said in a statement that "the term 'blood libel' is not a synonym for 'false accusation.' It refers to a specific falsehood perpetuated by Christians about Jews for centuries, a falsehood that motivated a good deal of anti-Jewish violence and discrimination. Unless someone has been accusing Ms. Palin of killing Christian babies and making matzoh from their blood, her use of the term is totally out-of-line."

"In the past two months, Ms. Palin and Glenn Beck, the most well-known media personalities on Fox News, have abused two of the most tragic episode in the history of the Jewish people: the Holocaust and the blood libel," Greer said, adding "in addition, Roger Ailes, the head of the Fox News channel, referred to the executives at NPR as 'Nazis.' Perhaps the popular news channel has such an ingrained victim mentality that it identifies with one of the most persecuted minorities in human history. But the Jewish community does not appreciate their identification, which only serves to denigrate the very real pain so many Jews have suffered because of anti-Semitic violence. It is clear that Fox News has a Jewish problem."

"But it is worth pointing out that it was Rep. Giffords herself who first objected to Ms. Palin’s map showing her district in the crosshairs," Greer said

Giffords, who is Jewish, is in critical condition after she was shot in the head during an attack in Tucson, Arizona last week. Six other people were killed by suspected gunman Jared Lee Loughner, 22.

In the wake of the attack, Palin has come under criticism for her aggressive political style, including setting up a website called "Take Back the 20," which included a map of the United States with cross hairs on congressional districts of Democratic candidates she had singled out for defeat.

Anti-Defamation League National Director Abraham Foxman said in a statement that "Palin has every right to defend herself against these kinds of attacks, and we agree with her that the best tradition in America is one of finding common ground despite our differences."

"In response to this tragedy we need to rise above partisanship, incivility, heated rhetoric, and the business-as-usual approaches that are corroding our political system and tainting the atmosphere in Washington and across the country," Foxman said, adding "still, we wish that Palin had not invoked the phrase 'blood-libel' in reference to the actions of journalists and pundits in placing blame for the shooting in Tucson on others. While the term 'blood-libel' has become part of the English parlance to refer to someone being falsely accused, we wish that Palin had used another phrase, instead of one so fraught with pain in Jewish history."
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Old 12-01-11, 07:40 PM
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Sarah Palin's missed opportunity
By Ezra Klein

Ezra Klein - Sarah Palin's missed opportunity

I'll stand with Jon Chait and, oddly enough, Sarah Palin on this one: Palin is right to feel aggrieved. As Chait says, many have blamed her for a killing rampage that she had nothing to do with. A lot of Palin's rhetoric is over the top, and her gun metaphors ("RELOAD!") and her target sights looked unsettling in light of subsequent events, but those subsequent events were not her fault. Too many were too quick to imply she had a significant role in them.

Moreover, I just don't care if Palin thought "blood libel" was a vivid way of saying "nasty smear" instead of a description of the once-common anti-Semitic trope that Jews murder Christian children because their blood is needed to bake matzoh. I'm Jewish, so I know the term well. But I imagine the history of it is more obscure to those who didn't attend Hebrew school. This is not worth the headlines it's been getting.

What is remarkable to me, however, is Palin's ability to never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity. Palin didn't ask to be part of this story. But she did choose how to respond to it. Imagine if Palin had come out and said, "My initial response was to defend the fact that I had never condoned such violence, and never would. But the fact is, if I in any way contributed to an unhealthy political climate, I have to be more careful and deliberate in my public language rather than merely sharpen my defenses." That would've been leadership: It would have made her critics look small, and it would've made her look big. Those who doubted whether Palin could rise to an occasion that called for more than sharp partisanship would've been silenced.

Of course, Palin didn't say that. Al Sharpton did (or at least he said something very close). Palin accused her opponents of propagating a "blood libel." Rather than admitting that we all sometimes go too far, and that we must constantly work to see the humanity in others and tamp down on the dangerous certainty we have in ourselves, she lashed out at her critics, mocked the idea that political rhetoric was ever "less heated" and noted that there was a time when politicians settled disputes through duels.

So that's Palin's substantive response: Politics has never been reliably civil, her critics are unfair to her and at least she's not shot anybody. All that is true. But you won't find "stop bothering me, this tragedy isn't my fault" in the chapter headings of any books on leadership. Palin could've taken this opportunity to look very big, and instead she now looks very small. And that's not the fault of her detractors or her map. It's her fault, and her fault alone.

By Ezra Klein | January 12, 2011; 11:44 AM ET
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 13-01-11, 01:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Zichao View Post
I just meant that "blood libel" isn't the most diplomatic phrase she could possibly have chosen. It also just plain doesn't make much sense.
It does for her.

Shes one of those people with a martyr or victim complex, or at the very least this is the niche shes carved out for herself publicly to make lots of money.

She views almost everything from the perspective of being unjustly persecuted or in the middle of a war.

It didn't surprise me that she took so long to say anything on this subject, despite her very direct connection with Mrs. Giffords in calling her a marked target and putting a gun sight over her head. Shes not a total idiot, this is why that webpage was taken down within hours of the shootings... but of course Palin is a student of the school of never admit you're wrong on anything, ever. So she then said they weren't gun sights, they were surveyor marks... which begs an obvious question, but this is the extent of her cunning.

So whats a girl to do? Well you sit back for 5 days and say nothing while everyone else asks the obvious about you and your history of violent rhetoric and your specific targeting of a congresswoman who was almost assassinated. Then you pop out of your fox hole, call everyone else hypocrites for calling you out on what you've said, proclaim YOURSELF as the real victim, remind people that 200 years ago people had duels (violence and murder are nothing new, so why make a big stink about now?), declare victory and go home.

Oh and WRT "blood libel" she probably chose it because the congresswoman is Jewish and this is her failed attempt at empathy and possibly as a source of cover. (I'm being persecuted right now, just like her ancestors were)
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AnonymousIdiotSavant, contracycle, Francois Cellier, FredFredson, Gilles de Rais, Jayne B, PostmodernProphet, Zichao
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