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Old 25-10-10, 05:34 PM
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Default Bankers 'caused credit crisis for kicks'

Bankers 'caused credit crisis for kicks' - Telegraph

Quote:
With a theory that will alarm Business Secretary Vince Cable, Dr Paul Crosthwaite of Cardiff University has argued that bankers and other investors took on excessive risks not just to make money but for the "desire" and "exhilaration" of destruction.

"For its participants and speculators alike, the crash is not simply an object of fear or anxiety, or even of mere fascination, but also of an inchoate but urgent desire," Dr Crosthwaite wrote in an article published in Angelaki: Journal of the Theoretical Humanities.

In Blood on the Trading Floor: Waste, Sacrifice and Death in Financial Crises, Dr Crosthwaite claims his anthropological study of investors and traders found evidence of an element of masochistic satisfaction in running up losses.

He maintains that the crisis was the modern equivalent to the traditional Native American practice of "potlatch", a ritual ceremony in which the chiefs of rival tribes competed to destroy ever greater quantities of their own possessions as an expression of power and importance.

But in one fillip for the Business Secretary, Dr Crosthwaite says his research strengthens the case for tighter City regulation. It's human nature: the bankers could do it again.
Apparently I've got access to the full version of this. Notes:

1. I'm bored of Freud at the moment. I expect that in a few months'/years' time I'll run across something that'll make me think that he had something after all, but honestly, "the organism wishes to die only in its own fashion", wtf is that even supposed to mean? Where's your proof?! MY NUTS!!!1!! Sorry, little carried away there.

2. Marcel Mauss: underrated, including by me. I've never actually read one of his books, but I think they sound really interesting. On the other hand, I think that the potlatch thing is an over-used trope in the social sciences (see also under: the Milgram experiments, anything ever written by Pierre Bordieu). So a wierdo does something wierd. You don't need to try and make something deep and abiding out of it. I dunno, it must have been novel at some point, but now it just comes across as trite and smug.

3. Baudrillard: "Extermination and death, is the form of the symbolic itself". And the horse you rode in on, bitch. Seriously, either prove some of this load of old cobblers or STFU.

4. Lyotard: "Death is not an alternative [to this way of life], it is a part of it, it attests to the fact that there is jouissance in it, the English unemployed did not become workers to survive, they – hang on tight and spit on me – enjoyed [ils ont joui de] the hysterical, masochistic, whatever exhaustion it was of hanging on in the mines, in the foundries, in the factories, in hell, they enjoyed it, enjoyed the mad destruction of their organic body which was indeed imposed upon them, they enjoyed the decomposition of their personal identity, the identity that the peasant tradition had constructed for them, enjoyed the dissolution of their families and villages, and enjoyed the monstrous anonymity of the suburbs and the pubs in the morning and evening." I'd like to set this guy down in, say, the slaughterhouse district in Manchester around 1870 and have him say exactly that. No doubt he would derive a sense of hysterical, masochistic enjoyment from the result. Which is nice.

5. "More fanciful and contentious, no doubt, is the affinity suggested by the eerie resemblance of traders in the midst of a bear market – heads flung back or cast forward, faces contorted, hands lifted as if in prayer, eyes transfixed on the vast screens that preside overthe trading floor – to photographs of a young man undergoing the Chinese ritual execution known as lingchi, or the ‘‘death by a thousand cuts,’’ photographs which became fetishes for Georges Bataille, who detected in the transfigured expression of the man the indivisible blend of suffering and ecstasy that is the essence of expenditure."
Yeah, well I've seen those photos too and you people are all fucking nuts.

Has to be said, a great deal of the time the social sciences bring out the worst in academia.
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Old 25-10-10, 05:50 PM
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Dr Paul Crosthwaite should be stripped from his PhD and "doctor" title...
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Old 25-10-10, 06:10 PM
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To be fair it's mostly his predecessors that I'm criticising here.

If I was to go for his argument specifically I'd note that:

1. Re financial thrillers - yes (some) people enjoy them. They're fiction. The hero comes along and saves the day from incredible peril. That is what fiction is for.

2. Re real life crashes, he doesn't even glance at the fact that there are myriad situations on the markets that constitute a zero or even a negative sum game, or where a course that is logical to the individual will, if followed en masse lead to a disaster. Seems like most of the time catastrophes are the result of a lot of individual calculated risks leading to an unintended outcome on the macro level. Precious little death instinct in that.

3. The blitz spirit. It's quite possible to relish a disaster without any of that creepy psych 101 stuff.

4. It'd be really boring if you won every time.
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Old 25-10-10, 10:15 PM
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Actually, I can do better than that and synthesise those points into one big one: a thing is only valuable if it's scarce. If it was possible for everyone to always make a killing on the markets money would be worthless. Failure is necessary for success to have any meaning.

As to enjoying failure in itself - I'd say again, Blitz spirit, determination to do better, the satisfaction of having at least given it a go, the knowldge that there's a rebound coming somewhere in the future...
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Old 26-10-10, 12:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Zichao View Post
To be fair it's mostly his predecessors that I'm criticising here.
Yeah, I got that. But you said anything I might want to say. Except that I cannot believe someone actually publish the drivel spouted by Lyotard. And if he is still alive, we just need to update that crap to make it about a third world countries' people and then drop him in the relevant favela. Same result.
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Old 26-10-10, 12:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Zichao View Post
Actually, I can do better than that and synthesise those points into one big one: a thing is only valuable if it's scarce. If it was possible for everyone to always make a killing on the markets money would be worthless. Failure is necessary for success to have any meaning.
Self-evident. You know it's a bubble when you start seeing articles about "everyone ought to be rich".


Quote:
As to enjoying failure in itself - I'd say again, Blitz spirit, determination to do better, the satisfaction of having at least given it a go, the knowldge that there's a rebound coming somewhere in the future...
I don't think so. Blitz spirit? Well, ok, being a survivor harden you and make you a savvier investor. But being a survivor is already a success in these times. The satisfaction of having at least given it a go works (maybe) for failed entrepreneurs, not for bankers/traders. As to the knowledge there is a rebound coming, yes, maybe, but that's not enjoying failure, that's begging for the pain to stop...

Sorry but Dr. Crosthwaite stuff is not salvageable.

Furthermore, he kind of misrepresents (or the article does) potlash - The reason you show power by destroying your assets is because of what is implied i.e. "I can get it back". Traders may display the same spirit when they lighten their cigars with £50 banknotes, not when they are blowing themselves up and their banks... Native American warriors may have burned their possessions but I don't think too many of them cut out and burned their bollocks and their hands as part of potlash...
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Old 26-10-10, 01:02 PM
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Quote:
The satisfaction of having at least given it a go works (maybe) for failed
entrepreneurs, not for bankers/traders.
I'm neither, but it works for me.

Quote:
As to the knowledge there is a rebound coming, yes, maybe, but that's not enjoying failure, that's begging for the pain to stop...
Or thinking "I can buy into X, Y and Z right now and make $$$ when the recovery comes."
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Old 26-10-10, 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Zichao View Post
I'm neither, but it works for me. Or thinking "I can buy into X, Y and Z right now and make $$$ when the recovery comes."
The reason it doesn't work for bankers is that they were wiped out - They had no cash/credit lines left for anything.

If you had the guts - and the cash - you could make a killing buying in 2008 while everybody else was a forced seller...

I emphasised "forced" to point out that they couldn't actually hold on to their existing assets, let alone buy new ones, no matter the long-term economic rationale. In many cases, traders knew they were selling stuff below the "real"/fair price - They just couldn't wait to be proven right. And that's why the state might still make some money out of TARP and the like.

The reason why "oh, at least, I gave it a go" doesn't work for traders is that they are usually pretty leveraged themselves in their personal affairs - They desperately need those bonuses to be made good or else they face personal bankruptcy. If your personal affairs, your marriage, your mortgage and everything else in your life implodes - with no chances of finding similar employment in any kind of reasonable timeframe, it would take a very particular person to think "oh well, at least I gave it a go". That's only possible if the losses do not wipe you out i.e. you do not lose more than you invested - like an entrepreneur with a limited liability company. Even if it goes bankrupt, as long as it didn't finance it via a huge mortgage on his main residence, he can go "oh well, at least I tried".

Furthermore, even when it's not a matter of life or death, the truth is traders are rarely people tempted by self-awareness and correct attribution to luck in their careers.

Michael Lewis wrote about Gutfreund [disgraced CEO of Salomon but hardly on the breadline]: "I knew that after he’d been forced to resign from Salomon Brothers he’d fallen on harder times. I heard later that a few years ago he’d sat on a panel about Wall Street at Columbia Business School. When his turn came to speak, he advised students to find something more meaningful to do with their lives. As he began to describe his career, he broke down and wept".
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Old 26-10-10, 03:24 PM
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True enough, in certain cases.

But... I haven't been to the City lately, but I doubt whether it's become a howling desert since the recession. A lot of the people involved still have their jobs and will probably still have them after the next slump too.
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Old 28-10-10, 12:42 PM
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