Or, maybe, people just do drugs anyway. That one third figure is about the same as for the general populaiton. Probably there is some truth to it, in that I would think single parent homes are more stressed for several reasons, buit it would only be a sensible figure when contrasted with what else goes on.

Yeah, I was wondering how the survey was presented to the participants - whether they asked them if they took drugs and committed crime because they were lacking a parental unit, or just if they took drugs and committed crime.

I hope it's the former. It had never occurred to me that it could be a legitimate excuse all on its own, but now I know I'm off to do some coke and rob a petrol station. Don't wait up.

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Originally Posted by Zichao

If I wanted to reduce the divorce rate I'd abolish state benefits.

But the point is that I think you went on a tangent. The OP does complain about "the breakdown of the family" in very classically social-conservative rethoric but he doesn't say a thing about divorce.

For these socially-conservative people, it is not necessarily a case of legislating against divorce - as pointed out by his description of the succession of "step-fathers" occuring - None of these men are going to be actually married to the woman in question.

Divorce isn't the issue. They seem more keen on blaming "the zeigeist", the post-60s societal attitudes about pre- and non-marital sex and indeed social benefits/the welfare state.

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Originally Posted by Zichao

Yeah, I was wondering how the survey was presented to the participants - whether they asked them if they took drugs and committed crime because they were lacking a parental unit, or just if they took drugs and committed crime. I hope it's the former. It had never occurred to me that it could be a legitimate excuse all on its own, but now I know I'm off to do some coke and rob a petrol station. Don't wait up.

You didn't know that kids from a divorce or raised by a single mother tend to do less well on a series of social/socio-criminal measures?

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Originally Posted by Gilles de Rais

But the point is that I think you went on a tangent. The OP does complain about "the breakdown of the family" in very classically social-conservative rethoric but he doesn't say a thing about divorce. For these socially-conservative people, it is not necessarily a case of legislating against divorce - as pointed out by his description of the succession of "step-fathers" occuring - None of these men are going to be actually married to the woman in question. Divorce isn't the issue. They seem more keen on blaming "the zeigeist", the post-60s societal attitudes about pre- and non-marital sex and indeed social benefits/the welfare state.

Well yes, but it's Dominic Lawson we're looking at here... And I don't think that a return of censorious attitudes designed to make the little sluts properly ashamed of themselves is a particularly good thing either.

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You didn't know that kids from a divorce or raised by a single mother tend to do less well on a series of social/socio-criminal measures?

Yes, but I didn't realise that they were all blaming their drug habits, criminality and depression on it (if that is indeed what they're doing).

Incidentally, I'm pretty interested in the term "family breakdown" too. Most of the working class, single parent families I know are part of massive tribes of cousins, aunts, grandparents, neighbours who nipped over to borrow the lawnmower, etc. It seems somewhat perverse to accuse them of not providing sufficient parenting. I'd be more inclined to blame the socio-economic milieu in which the children grow up for any aberant behaviour later on.

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Originally Posted by Zichao

Well yes, but it's Dominic Lawson we're looking at here...

I never heard of him before so I do not know about his wider pov.

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And I don't think that a return of censorious attitudes designed to make the little sluts properly ashamed of themselves is a particularly good thing either.

Well, IMO, it'd be attacking a symptom - at best and with a particularly blunt, nasty and freedom-destroying weapon. OTOH, I cannot rule out that it'd work. Iran seems to marry relative technical modernity with medieval attitudes to sex/morality. So does the American South. If American society was more equal/socialist (as, presumably, Iran might be), maybe their social conservatism would pay off...

All in all, I think best to tackle the real causes rather than the symptoms and leave personal morality well alone.

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Yes, but I didn't realise that they were all blaming their drug habits, criminality and depression on it (if that is indeed what they're doing).

If the studies are well done and all other factors have neutralised/adjusted for, then it seems fair enough.

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Incidentally, I'm pretty interested in the term "family breakdown" too. Most of the working class, single parent families I know are part of massive tribes of cousins, aunts, grandparents, neighbours who nipped over to borrow the lawnmower, etc. It seems somewhat perverse to accuse them of not providing sufficient parenting. I'd be more inclined to blame the socio-economic milieu in which the children grow up for any aberant behaviour later on.

Working class seems likely too high in the social order for that kind of issue. What you want to look at is real underclass i.e. places where women may have 4-5 children by 4-5 different fathers and a string of "boyfriends/step-fathers" with no individual one lasting very long...

I think your studies above (or mine) was saying that substance abuse was also a key determinant...

That's when you get your baby-P like stuff.

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