TheNewTopical.com - current events, politics, culture, ethics, economics discussion forum  

Go Back   TheNewTopical.com - current events, politics, culture, ethics, economics discussion forum » Main Forum » General & Current Events

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21 (permalink)  
Old 01-06-10, 10:11 AM
Gilles de Rais's Avatar
Moderator
 

Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 7,639
Default

Deadly Israeli Raid Draws Condemnation - NYTimes.com

How do you competently and professionally keep a ship bigger than your intercepters from advancing? The videos in the article are quite interesting. It is indeed clear that the passangers there were willing to fight rather than just play passive resistance stuff.
__________________
Unless otherwise specified, I am posting as a regular poster. When I will act as a mod, I'll make sure you're in no doubt.
Reply With Quote
  #22 (permalink)  
Old 01-06-10, 10:45 AM
Zichao's Avatar
Moderator
 

Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 9,037
Default

Quote:
Well, one way or the other, the NGO would have won. If let through, Israel blockade would be challenged all the time. If they were arrested, it would attract attention on the cruel blockade.
Would that have been better or worse than the attention they're currently getting?

Quote:
How do you competently and professionally keep a ship bigger than your intercepters from advancing?
1. Send out an appropriately trained force.
2. I'm not an expert in the actual, technical methods, so I can't give you a blow-by-blow account, but whatever the Israeli equivalent of the GIGN is should be trained in doing precisely that. Other security forces manage to do it frequently, as I said, in the case of piracy, drugs and illegal immigration. If you want to ratchet things up a notch you could also compare it to hostage-taking situations which are more likely to go wrong, but it's still possible to make a good job of one if you know what you're doing.

Quote:
The videos in the article are quite interesting. It is indeed clear that the passangers there were willing to fight rather than just play passive resistance stuff.
I could say the same about a football riot. The best solution for everyone involved still isn't to show up and shoot a bunch of people. As I've said before, in this case backing off and letting them through would still have been a better outcome than what actually happened.

I'm presuming that the guys in charge failed to elaborate clear ROE for the different situations they might encounter, so the people actually involved just fell back on self-defense when things got difficult.
__________________
Standard disclaimer: the disgusting statements contained in this post are the views of the poster, and unless specified do not represent the views of the moderators or the site's owners.
Reply With Quote
  #23 (permalink)  
Old 01-06-10, 01:08 PM
psyche's Avatar
Senior Member
 

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: London
Posts: 1,575
Default

Originally Posted by Zichao View Post
I'm presuming that the guys in charge failed to elaborate clear ROE for the different situations they might encounter, so the people actually involved just fell back on self-defense when things got difficult.
i'm guessing that neither the guys in charge nor the guys on the ground were entirely impartial. we've already heard reports about the way israeli soldiers perceive palestinians, and as for the guys in charge - i think their spokesman's comments that an aid convoy was an attempt by terrorists to attack israel is very telling.

whether provoked or not, this is a massive over-reaction and clearly an act of aggression beyond the bounds of reasonable self defence. even north korea had the decency to pick on a war ship.
__________________
The New Topical: current affairs, current events, politics, political, culture, cultural, ethics & economics discussion debate forum.
Reply With Quote
  #24 (permalink)  
Old 01-06-10, 05:03 PM
Iolo's Avatar
Member
 

Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 79
Default

It is a typical nazi operation. The zionists have no right to a single square inch of Palestine (would you allow the UN to give your home to someone else?) and are viciously racist colonialists, as everyone agrees who has visited the colony. That they have now turned to international piracy and murder is just a normal development of such insane regimes: since they deny the humanity of other people they will go on until they are stopped, let's face it, and only the suckers who support them in the US are in a position to do anything about it. WHY are they subsidising this monstrous evil?
__________________
Nox est perpetua una dormienda
Reply With Quote
  #25 (permalink)  
Old 01-06-10, 08:42 PM
Zichao's Avatar
Moderator
 

Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 9,037
Default

Originally Posted by psyche View Post
i'm guessing that neither the guys in charge nor the guys on the ground were entirely impartial. we've already heard reports about the way israeli soldiers perceive palestinians, and as for the guys in charge - i think their spokesman's comments that an aid convoy was an attempt by terrorists to attack israel is very telling.
Meh. Show me the army that is entirely impartial. The point is that these days it's supposed to be very strictly contained (by clear and comprehensive ROE among other things), we're not supposed to just charge at anyone we dislike screaming any more.
__________________
Standard disclaimer: the disgusting statements contained in this post are the views of the poster, and unless specified do not represent the views of the moderators or the site's owners.
Reply With Quote
  #26 (permalink)  
Old 01-06-10, 09:21 PM
PostmodernProphet's Avatar
full immersion.....
 

Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,194
Default

Originally Posted by Zichao View Post
Big deal. If you're a soldier on operations then you come close to being killed with some regularity. Your job is to not go apeshit and shoot a bunch of hippies. Still, I suppose it's not entirely their fault; the people who planned the thing and trained them have to take some of the blame too.
actually, I think their job is to kill the enemy and stay alive.....just sayin'......
__________________
....attached to sanity by a bungee cord.....

Last edited by PostmodernProphet; 01-06-10 at 09:29 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #27 (permalink)  
Old 01-06-10, 09:26 PM
PostmodernProphet's Avatar
full immersion.....
 

Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,194
Default

didn't realize we had a thread on it already.....I will repost this here....
here's a video available on the internet that might shed some light on who began the aggression......reports indicate that troops boarded the ship for an inspection to see what was being delivered.....the ship had been advised that if there was nothing illegal on board they would be permitted to continue.....when the troops boarded the ship, this is what happened....

YouTube- Close-Up Footage of Mavi Marmara Passengers Attacking IDF Soldiers
__________________
__________________
....attached to sanity by a bungee cord.....

Last edited by PostmodernProphet; 01-06-10 at 09:28 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #28 (permalink)  
Old 01-06-10, 09:52 PM
Zichao's Avatar
Moderator
 

Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 9,037
Default

Originally Posted by PostmodernProphet View Post
actually, I think their job is to kill the enemy and stay alive.....just sayin'......
I believe you may be confusing us with the 15th century...
__________________
Standard disclaimer: the disgusting statements contained in this post are the views of the poster, and unless specified do not represent the views of the moderators or the site's owners.
Reply With Quote
  #29 (permalink)  
Old 01-06-10, 10:07 PM
Zan de Man's Avatar
Who's the Prime Minister?
 

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Conwy, Wales
Posts: 360
Default

Originally Posted by Gilles de Rais View Post
But that's the point of the OP. These kind of events give people who'd like to distanciate themselves from Israel a good chance to do so. Obama is too intelligent to be a blind supporter of Israel. He may take this as an opportunity to rebalance his foreign policy a bit.
I'd like to believe that.
Reply With Quote
  #30 (permalink)  
Old 01-06-10, 11:04 PM
LiberalNation's Avatar
Senior Member
 

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: KY, USA
Posts: 1,199
Default

Originally Posted by Zichao View Post
I believe you may be confusing us with the 15th century...
to close with and destroy the enemy is our main mission even now. Rifle man first if your a marine.
__________________
Give unto Caesar that what is Caesar's, and lie like hell to keep as much of the rest of your shit as you can.

"If you want something said ask a man...if you want something done, ask a woman" Margaret Thatcher
Reply With Quote
Reply


(View-All Members who have read this thread : 14
Administrator, AnonymousIdiotSavant, Benjamin, contracycle, Francois Cellier, FredFredson, Gilles de Rais, Iolo, LiberalNation, PostmodernProphet, psyche, Zan de Man, Zichao
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:06 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2012, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0