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Old 16-07-11, 03:03 PM
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Default Don't let the doom merchants obscure the true European picture

Don't let the doom merchants obscure the true European picture | Steven Hill | Comment is free | guardian.co.uk

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Nearly three years since the economic earthquake that shook the world, most regions of Europe continue on the path of recovery. It is unfortunate that most of the headlines dwell on the plight of Portugal, Ireland, Italy, Greece and Spain because much of the rest of Europe is making steady progress toward developing a more sustainable economic model.

Germany has emerged as a global economic leader, with solid growth rates and unemployment declining to its lowest level in decades (about 6%, according to OECD harmonised figures, compared to 9.3% and 9.2% for the EU and US respectively). The Nordic countries of Finland, Norway, Sweden and Denmark all have seen steady growth. Sweden, viewed as "socialist" by many in the US media, in particular has been a bright spot, seeing growth of over 4% in 2010 with solid growth predicted in 2011 and 2012 as well. Sweden and Germany have defied the experts' predictions, and are a reminder of Europe's capacity for pleasant surprises. France, the Netherlands, Switzerland, the Czech Republic and others also have shown strong signs of recovery.

The news of course is buzzing with fears over governments drowning in debt, whether in Greece or in the US. But the fact is Europe is not as much underwater as the US. Compare the current debt averages, in which EU debt amounts to 73% of gross domestic product while US debt is 102% (latest US treasury figures). The US national debt has skyrocketed due not only to the economic collapse but also to excessive military spending and out-of-control healthcare costs. While the EU debt is still higher than the target of 60% of GDP, US debt will exceed the size of the national economy for the first time since the second world war.

Nevertheless, President Barack Obama joined the Republicans in Congress to extend the Bush-era tax cuts for the richest 2% of Americans, which the president had vowed to end. Yet inequality in America is increasing dramatically, the 400 wealthiest Americans now having $1.4tn (£878bn) in wealth, which is greater than the gross domestic product for the entire country of India (with more than a billion people).

In a momentous reversal, "socialist" Europe is the place that now is emphasising budget discipline. Yet at the same time Europe is also endeavouring to preserve the best of its social supports for families and workers. (Meanwhile the US is having a devil of a time figuring out how to provide healthcare for the 47 million Americans without it). The US also has a huge trade deficit, both because it imports too much and no longer produces enough that the rest of the world wants to buy. Europe, in the meantime, has become the largest trading partner with both the US and China, with more Fortune 500 companies than America and China combined.

Poland is a great example of what is going right in Europe, and why it doesn't make sense to obsess too much on the countries in a weaker position. The EU's sixth most populous nation, with an economy larger than Ireland, Greece or Portugal, it has avoided a recession altogether during this economic collapse. Many economists have compared Poland favourably to Ireland in the 1990s, during the Celtic Tiger's glory days (though so far no problems have been found with Polish banks). Foreign investors are taking a liking to what they see, attracted by stable growth and 38 million people with modest levels of household debt.

The amount of EU structural funds is substantial, €347bn (£306bn) over seven years, most of it targeted to eastern and central European member states. The American economist Paul Krugman has harshly criticised Europe for not providing enough government spending to stimulate its economy, but these structural funds have done much to jumpstart economies in the targeted regions.

Eastern Europe is also showing signs of revival. Latvia, Lithuania and Ukraine, which suffered double-digit plunges in economic output last year, have begun to grow again. Like Poland, these economies have benefited from the strong economy in neighbouring Germany, with German exports to the region jumping by 20%. Turkey, also, has proven its economic mettle, growing at a China-like pace, with trade to Europe continuing to increase. There are a few worry spots, especially the small economies of Bulgaria, Croatia and Romania, but for the most part the "west to east to west" conveyor belt that had rolled so industriously prior to the economic collapse seems to be reviving.

So many economic green shoots sprouting across the continent puts the plight of the famous four in a broader perspective. Especially since Portugal, Ireland, Greece and Spain comprise such a small share of the EU economy, it makes little sense to become too obsessed with their situation. Each of them, for different reasons, have put themselves between a rock and a hard place. Certainly the other European member states should lend a helping hand, but at this point there are no easy solutions. It is going to take time and determination to move forward.

In the meantime, the success or failure of the European project is not dependent on their fate. That's what the doom and gloom Eurosceptics don't seem to understand.

The world is facing some enormous challenges. The world's wealthy nations, not only in Europe but also in the US, Japan and elsewhere, are faced with a fundamental question: how does a modern economy develop itself and foster a decent, middle-class standard of living for its people without relying on fragile asset bubbles, hyper-consumerism (which adds to global warming), and running up huge public and private debt? The world urgently needs a model for fostering steady-state economies for the 21st century. Economic as well as ecological balance and sustainability must become the highest national priorities, indeed the basis for the blueprint of how to develop an economy.

Europe's flaws and challenges are very real and should not be minimised, but nor should they be exaggerated or obsessed over. Europe is a work in progress, and it has been taking many correct steps not only to recover from the worst economic collapse since the Great Depression, but to chart a durable path into the future.
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Old 16-07-11, 03:14 PM
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An interesting rebuttal to the prevailing gloom & doom.

I think that in extremis, societies are more adaptable than is generally assumed. I would like to see the US Congress fail to raise the debt ceiling and let the tea party people see what will actually happen.
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Old 18-07-11, 03:36 PM
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It is unfortunate that most of the headlines dwell on the plight of Portugal, Ireland, Italy, Greece and Spain because much of the rest of Europe is making steady progress toward developing a more sustainable economic model.
Oh? Okay...

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Germany has emerged as a global economic leader, with solid growth rates and unemployment declining to its lowest level in decades (about 6%, according to OECD harmonised figures, compared to 9.3% and 9.2% for the EU and US respectively).
... by executing a China number on the rest of the EU... Germany is nearly as much to blame for the Greek crisis as the Greek themselves.

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But the fact is Europe is not as much underwater as the US. Compare the current debt averages, in which EU debt amounts to 73% of gross domestic product while US debt is 102% (latest US treasury figures).
Reminds me of the story of the 6ft tall man who drown trying to cross the river, 5ft deep, on average...

Furthermore, it doesn't matter. 15 years from now, unless something is done, ALL western countries are broke. Whether the forecast is a 250% debt to GDP or a 400% debt to GDP ratio matters little. Either is impossible and will not occur. The only thing you can say is that reforming the 250% one might be less politically painful than reforming the 400% one...

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Eastern Europe is also showing signs of revival. Latvia, Lithuania and Ukraine, which suffered double-digit plunges in economic output last year, have begun to grow again. Like Poland, these economies have benefited from the strong economy in neighbouring Germany, with German exports to the region jumping by 20%.
What's their trade balance? Ukraine is a basket case. I wouldn't use that as an example of anything going 'right'. I don't know enough about Poland but I am glad to see that the billions we've spent there had the same effect as it did when we spent billions in Ireland. It helped. Maybe we can even learn from our mistakes and not create another bubble?

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In the meantime, the success or failure of the European project is not dependent on their fate. That's what the doom and gloom Eurosceptics don't seem to understand.
It depends what you mean. If Greece exit the EUR, is that a success or a failure of the EU project? If Germany refuses to "help" Greece, is that a success or a failure of the EU project?

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Europe's flaws and challenges are very real and should not be minimised, but nor should they be exaggerated or obsessed over.
Like with many things, life will probably go on, I agree. Even the collapse of the Soviet Union did not result in instant death for all the people there. Just a lot of them got to live and die in shittier and shittier conditions...

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Europe is a work in progress, and it has been taking many correct steps not only to recover from the worst economic collapse since the Great Depression, but to chart a durable path into the future.
That's optimistic. All I can see is useless politicians trying desperately to kick the can down the road...
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Old 18-07-11, 05:43 PM
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My point in the OP was really that - no offense, but... - any smart-ass can bitch about stuff. I once did a five minute interview with Xinhua on precisely this subject, despite knowing sweet FA about it. What's even better is that by sitting on the sidelines complaining you can be way more intelligent than the people who actually do stuff without having to... y'know.... do stuff.

I'm not saying that you personally are necessarily doing this, just that there's an awful lot of it about. Just that it's nice to see someone giving the opposite point of view for a change.
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Old 19-07-11, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Zichao View Post
My point in the OP was really that - no offense, but... - any smart-ass can bitch about stuff. I once did a five minute interview with Xinhua on precisely this subject, despite knowing sweet FA about it. What's even better is that by sitting on the sidelines complaining you can be way more intelligent than the people who actually do stuff without having to... y'know.... do stuff.
Yeah, I know and, to a degree, I agree. We've had this discussion with RK. Given that we can clearly see the issues with modern day societies right here right now the few of us on this little forum, it'd be bizarre to assume that at least some people in power cannot see it as well. Certainly, Obama has always said the right thing.

The question was: Why can't they fix it? Why is it so damn hard? It doesn't seem difficult, from the place I stand. I mean, at least not everything. Climate change or falling birth rates or immigration are genuinely difficult questions, requiring lots of efforts and stuff. But fixing tax rates and closing loopholes? Jeez. That's one decree.

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I'm not saying that you personally are necessarily doing this, just that there's an awful lot of it about.
I am sure I am guilty of it too. Then again, so are you, my sweet cynical girl...

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Just that it's nice to see someone giving the opposite point of view for a change.
Fair enough.
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Old 19-07-11, 01:20 PM
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Yeah, I know and, to a degree, I agree. We've had this discussion with RK. Given that we can clearly see the issues with modern day societies right here right now the few of us on this little forum, it'd be bizarre to assume that at least some people in power cannot see it as well. Certainly, Obama has always said the right thing.

The question was: Why can't they fix it? Why is it so damn hard? It doesn't seem difficult, from the place I stand. I mean, at least not everything. Climate change or falling birth rates or immigration are genuinely difficult questions, requiring lots of efforts and stuff. But fixing tax rates and closing loopholes? Jeez. That's one decree.
The issues being that we're richer, healthier and have a better quality of life than at any other time in history?

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I am sure I am guilty of it too. Then again, so are you, my sweet cynical girl...
Well yeah, but my excuse is that I had a camera and a Chinese media guy in my face at the time. What's yours?
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Old 19-07-11, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Zichao View Post
The issues being that we're richer, healthier and have a better quality of life than at any other time in history?
If you're a white heterosexual male, I disagree with the last bit of the statement. The 50s and 60s were better, even with the credible threat of nuclear warfare as a dampener... People need stability. Wealth is useless if you cannot enjoy it.

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Well yeah, but my excuse is that I had a camera and a Chinese media guy in my face at the time. What's yours?
I am really a miserable person, with a superiority complex?
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Old 19-07-11, 02:20 PM
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If you're a white heterosexual male, I disagree with the last bit of the statement. The 50s and 60s were better, even with the credible threat of nuclear warfare as a dampener... People need stability. Wealth is useless if you cannot enjoy it.
In the 50s and 60s they still had polio. They had no internet and only terrestrial tv. Sushi didn't exist.

As for stability: been gang raped by rampaging Vikings lately? Had your crops wiped out by drought? Become a refugee?

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I am really a miserable person, with a superiority complex?
*shrugs* An analysis that focuses on nothing but the negative is as useless as one that only talks about the positive.
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Old 19-07-11, 02:26 PM
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Frank Zappa once observed that, "“It isn’t necessary to imagine the world ending in fire or ice — there are two other possibilities: one is paperwork, and the other is nostalgia.”

Zappa's world ended in 1993 from neither cause, but from prostate cancer. The EU and the US look to be on course for a terminal dose of paperwork, complicated by nostalgia.
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Old 20-07-11, 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Zichao View Post
In the 50s and 60s they still had polio.
What good is medical progress if I cannot access it? Arguably, France does deliver health care decently but the UK or the US is a bit more patchy...

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They had no internet and only terrestrial tv. Sushi didn't exist.
Material progress doesn't correlate very strongly with happiness...

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As for stability: been gang raped by rampaging Vikings lately? Had your crops wiped out by drought? Become a refugee?
And neither was I in the 50s/60s. Plus I meant economic stability. People love knowing that tomorrow is cared for. Makes them all kind of happy. Living hand to mouth, on the other hand, stresses them... Even if the handful are bigger/better...

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*shrugs* An analysis that focuses on nothing but the negative is as useless as one that only talks about the positive.
Maybe it's professional deformation as well as a superiority complex... In my line of work, we tend to say "let's focus on the downside and the upside will take care of itself"...
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