TheNewTopical.com - current events, politics, culture, ethics, economics discussion forum  

Go Back   TheNewTopical.com - current events, politics, culture, ethics, economics discussion forum » Main Forum » Fundamental Change

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 18-12-10, 05:01 PM
FredFredson's Avatar
Senior Member
 

Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: North America
Posts: 1,749
Default Ignore experts, prophets and economists

This also applies to my favorite "doomers" of course, but in the world of HFT and back room bailouts it is wise to be very defensive.
F


Ignore experts, prophets and economists
DAVID KNEE | CAPE TOWN, SOUTH AFRICA - Dec 15 2010 10:57
comments 0 comments | Post your comment

Ignore experts, prophets and economists - Smart Money - Mail & Guardian Online

For the vast majority of professional money managers, an investment "edge" -- or the ability to add value consistently over time -- is hard to demonstrate. Many of the claims made by managers with respect to their edge fail to stand up against robust scrutiny.

The key to delivering an enduring investment edge is using the tools at your disposal to promote discipline, rigour and consistency as counterweights to often inappropriate emotional reactions to price movements; as well as patience and an extended time-horizon to exploit volatility.

Investors do have a chance to add real value if they look at longer-term valuations and take medium-term decisions. How can we outperform in a market where there are millions of investors who are bringing their weight of human capital to bear on the market?

A common response to this challenge would be to suggest an increased ability to forecast economics, asset prices and returns.

But does this work? One of the reasons that it's so difficult to gain an investment edge by using only traditional techniques is the question of what makes us human.

Human decision making involves personal judgements and emotions. We just can't help being drawn in -- we hate losing money, we rush into things, we look back with hindsight bias and regret, we think we have skills and insight which we don't, we are over confident, we remember the calls that worked and forget our mistakes. It's all part of being a human investor.

And when it comes to investor confidence versus accuracy, beware! In an academic study, researchers in the United States assembled a group of students and a group of investment professionals, gave them two blue-chip companies and asked each group to forecast which company would outperform the other over a specific period, as well as how confident they were in their predictions.

The students got about half their calls right. The investment professionals did a whole lot worse -- the more confident they were, the worse they did. In my view, the more confident investment managers are, the more confident you should be of ignoring their views.

The problem is that more detail can make an event seem more plausible when in fact it makes it less so, or at least doesn't change the odds. Investors misunderstand the odds because sometimes they have too much information and more information isn't necessarily better information.

All too often we make judgements about markets where we misunderstand the odds. The chance that tomorrow will be an "up" day in the market is pretty much the same even if the last 20 days have all been up. So beware of jumping on market trends when in fact you have no reason to suspect that the next observation will follow the trend, except that the previous observations have done so.

Follow the experts?
Using the world's most respected central banker, Alan Greenspan -- as one example among many -- illustrates how the experts do not necessarily have better insight. In June 1999, Greenspan was asked if he could detect a stock market bubble: "Bubbles generally are perceptible only after the fact. To spot a bubble in advance requires a judgement that hundreds of thousands of informed investors have it all wrong. Betting against markets is usually precarious at best."

Six months after Greenspan made his observation -- the Nasdaq, which had tripled in the previous three years -- peaked and began to fall, a process that only ended when it was 80% down from the peak.

It's easy for us to attribute soothsayer-type abilities to so-called experts when we are looking to hang our investment hat on something. There's no reason to expect so-called experts to have any more insight into the future than you or I do.

Surely we can trust economists to forecast accurately, you may ask? Not necessarily, as a study by the Swedish Central Bank of about 40 mainstream forecasters showed that economists had significant forecast errors, specifically around predicting GDP.

Can we rely on economists to be independent in their forecasting, or will they rely on what else is going on in the world of forecasting? Do they follow the herd? Unfortunately the evidence is that they are indeed influenced by what other people are saying.

What can we do about this?
The starting point is to step back and think about the medium-term valuation.

As value investors, we try to frame our thinking by considering what we should be paid to own an asset class over a medium-term period. Then we use a variety of tools to promote discipline, rigour and consistency to ensure we can ignore valuation signals. We use patience and an extended time-horizon to exploit volatility. We do have a chance to claim an edge if we look at longer-term valuations and take medium-term decisions.

The key is to buy assets when they are deeply out of favour, priced cheaply and are offering a risk premium. Then take a medium-term view that looks through the volatility.

An investment edge is hard to claim, even for the vast majority of professional money managers. Any investment process based on views of the future is flawed. Ignore experts, prophets and economists. Consistently buy assets where the odds are on your side -- high risk premiums -- and be prepared to wait. Hope is NOT an investment strategy.

# David Knee is head of fixed income at Prudential Portfolio Managers
__________________
"Patriotism means being loyal to your country all the time and to its government when it deserves it."-- Mark Twain

"Inter arma silent Musae"--when the weapons speak, the muses fall silent.

An't nanum hearm deth, doth hwaet ye willath.

It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished
unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets. -Voltaire

Economic Left/Right: -3.88
Authoritarian/Libertarian: -4.36
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 19-12-10, 11:05 AM
Gilles de Rais's Avatar
Moderator
 

Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 7,639
Default

Originally Posted by FredFredson View Post
This also applies to my favorite "doomers" of course...
Without wanting to sound patronising or ass-licking, that's one of the reason I like & respect you. At least, you're not so consumed by your own views you lose all perspective - unlike many of the doomers you like to quote...

This article is fundamentally correct but I'd like to pinpoint a few weaknesses. IMHO, of course...

Quote:
The chance that tomorrow will be an "up" day in the market is pretty much the same even if the last 20 days have all been up.
First mistake. That's the idea of random walk/brownian motion, usually tied with EMH. It's demonstably untrue. The past does affect the future. I don't know of any 20-days constant up/down in any liquid market but I think that you can demonstrate that, if you had 3-4 days of up in a row, the 4-5th is likely to be down - A bit of profit-taking/correction. Similarly, days which see a big move occuring are usually followed by other days with big moves (in either direction)... At a bigger scale, the whole systematic CTA/trend follower models are based on the idea that trends can be exploited. The best of these systematic funds are very good indeed. You can google "BlueTrend" and "BlueCrest" for a practical example...

Quote:
Surely we can trust economists to forecast accurately, you may ask? Not necessarily, as a study by the Swedish Central Bank of about 40 mainstream forecasters showed that economists had significant forecast errors, specifically around predicting GDP.
So that's the strongest point of his argument but it is fairly well-known. Yeah, experts are often crap and precise forecasting is a oxymoron...

Quote:
The key is to buy assets when they are deeply out of favour, priced cheaply and are offering a risk premium. Then take a medium-term view that looks through the volatility.
Right. You mean you're better at forecasting than others. Let's cut the crap. As someone said, "there are no toxic assets, just toxic prices". An asset you bought at 100 is toxic when it falls at 20 but, if you buy it at 20 while its 'true' value is 40, you're in for a treat...

The point I am making is this: To know that something is priced cheaply is basically making the same claim as the forecaster - You think you know what the future holds.

Practical case: March 2009. The markets are in free fall and have been for a while. It's Armaggedon out there. Depending on how you look at them, the PE ratios are either useless (having shot up very high - 40s - as present & forward earnings estimates get slashed to nothing) or useless (trailing PE ratios still historically high as prices haven't yet come down all that much). Some people are talking about the Dow at 4,000 in order to get the mean reverting aspect of trailing PE ratio right...

Of course, what happened was that the markets shot right back up (and we can certainly make the case that it is another 'bubble' or liquidity-driven illusion but that's besides the point) - PE ratio 'normalised' but are certainly not cheap at present level and really weren't at any moment even at the height of the crisis.

And while I used equities for everyone convenience, the same is true of bonds. I've seen bonds trading in the 40s and 60s (cents on the dollar) that are now back to 100, 105 etc. And people still pitching them as good investments. The question was and remains "How do you know that this distressed price of 40 was wrong and how do you know that this normal price of 100 is correct?"...

So I repeat the question: How do you know when an asset class is cheap?

Quote:
Any investment process based on views of the future is flawed. Consistently buy assets where the odds are on your side -- high risk premiums -- and be prepared to wait.
It's the same strategy...
__________________
Unless otherwise specified, I am posting as a regular poster. When I will act as a mod, I'll make sure you're in no doubt.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 19-12-10, 11:25 AM
Zichao's Avatar
Moderator
 

Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 9,037
Default

Originally Posted by Gilles de Rais View Post
Without wanting to sound patronising or ass-licking, that's one of the reason I like & respect you. At least, you're not so consumed by your own views you lose all perspective - unlike many of the doomers you like to quote...
True dat.
__________________
Standard disclaimer: the disgusting statements contained in this post are the views of the poster, and unless specified do not represent the views of the moderators or the site's owners.
Reply With Quote
Reply


(View-All Members who have read this thread : 5
contracycle, FredFredson, Gilles de Rais, roadkill, Zichao
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 04:09 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2012, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0