TheNewTopical.com - current events, politics, culture, ethics, economics discussion forum  

Go Back   TheNewTopical.com - current events, politics, culture, ethics, economics discussion forum » Main Forum » Culture

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 08-05-11, 12:37 PM
Zichao's Avatar
Moderator
 

Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 9,037
Default The arts can survive, and thrive, without public money

The arts can survive, and thrive, without public money - Telegraph

Quote:
There has been a long-running debate, at times quite heated, about public funding of the arts. One popular argument goes: why should bus drivers pay taxes to subsidise rich people to attend an opera at Covent Garden? (This assumes that no bus driver supports the opera; I prefer to believe that is not true.) The counter-argument runs something like this: putting on plays, art exhibitions, concerts, making films and, indeed, staging operas is so expensive that without public subsidy, it often wouldn’t happen, and if it didn’t, we would be a nation of boors (and, quite possibly, bores too). This assumes that such public funding as we have had since 1945, when the Arts Council’s predecessor sprang into life, has done much to civilise us: as I look around, I have my doubts. What we have here is one of those exceptionally rare things – an argument to which there genuinely are two sides.

Next Sunday evening, some soloists of the London Philharmonic Orchestra are giving a chamber concert in Cambridge, at the Cambridge Union, with a programme of Mozart, Richard Strauss and Schubert. The concert is sponsored by the Telegraph Media Group, which also brings you this newspaper: details of how to get tickets are at the end of this article. It is one of a series of such concerts that the orchestra was keen to promote, in order to give more exposure to some of its finest players. In the same way that Test batsmen improve more by playing matches than by any amount of practice in the nets, so musicians become even better through the discipline of live performance. The LPO has been fortunate to find other businesses to sponsor other concerts in the series. Times are hard in the private sector; but many firms, such as the one I work for, realise the importance of contributing more widely to the community, and recognise such sponsorship as part of the social dimension that any modern business should have.

I have no doubt that, in all fields of the arts, this is the best way forward. We no longer live in the days when a wide selection of wealthy patrons could shower money on a playwright, painter or composer and effectively keep them in business for years, as happened with Shakespeare or Bach. But in a time of economic stringency, it is too much to expect a state that must provide hospital beds, school places, police and soldiers to pay for dance ensembles, theatre groups and “community projects”. The arts are crucial to the development of our civilisation; but their development can begin from the community itself, from a combination of private individuals and corporations, rather than being some sort of extension of the welfare state.

When I heard the bleating and whining a few weeks ago from those whose enterprises had been cut off at the knees by reductions in Arts Council funding, I was extremely disheartened. The state is not the only body at whom the begging bowl can be directed, and if whatever these organisations are producing is of real merit and worth they will, like the LPO, find patrons in the private sector who are willing to support them, and link the reputation of their brands with that of the organisation.

To be fair, this happens widely already. Covent Garden has had a long-standing and highly successful fundraising programme, its worldwide prestige encouraging certain enormously wealthy people to give very substantial sums for the opera and the ballet. Impresarios in the West End take big financial risks themselves, or assemble teams of investors, to put on plays and musicals. Museums often have generations of benefactors behind them.

In a great city like London, such private benefactions can become clouded in anonymity; in smaller towns, where people struggle (and it often is a struggle) to keep theatres, galleries, concert halls or even small cinemas going, a serious sponsor can make the most enormous difference. Small orchestras, museums and theatre groups have become much more effective in the last 20 or 30 years at appealing to their patrons to recognise the economic realities of their existence.

This means, bluntly, saying to them that if you have enjoyed coming to this exhibition and looking at the sculptures or paintings, or you have enjoyed the concert, the play, the film or the ballet, then you may feel the need to volunteer your money or your time to ensure that such things continue to be provided. This is because, for the most part, the punter gets his or her ticket cheaply, however much it may seem to the contrary in some cases, and there has to be some element of subsidy if the thing is to be done at all. Spectacles are expensive.

The difficult part of the arts subsidy argument is one of quality control. One reason why the Arts Council has a dismal reputation in some quarters is that it has often given money to groups for what appear to be reasons of political or social engineering rather than to encourage quality. Nor is this confined to the Arts Council: the unlamented British Film Council had a hand in The King’s Speech, but it also had a hand in a lot of unutterable rubbish, some of which barely got distributed or even made it to DVD. Much of what they produced was of the Left-wing, self-hating variety, whose existence reminds us of one of the reasons why the contemporary French cinema is so much better than our own. Too many second-rate “artists” – be they screenwriters, directors, choreographers, “installation artists” or composers – were enabled to make a living purely because the state chose to subsidise their profoundly second-rate outpourings.

How, some say, can what is commercially successful be equated with what is an artistic achievement? It can’t. But after the age of great patrons, and before the era of state subsidy, writers, composers, painters and others developed their reputations while earning a living from teaching, or even (in T S Eliot’s case) working as a director of a publishing company. Really first-rate creative types will always find clients – think of Benjamin Britten, who had people queuing up to have him compose for them when he was barely out of his teens. This is a provocative thing to say, but there are sufficient civilised types working in the private sector who know quality when they see it and who can, even in hard times, be prevailed upon to support it. And I would rather trust their judgment in these matters than that of the functionaries of the state.

Tickets for the LPO Cambridge Concert on May 15, sponsored by the Telegraph, are available from the Cambridge Corn Exchange, telephone 01233 357851.
Apologies for product placement.

Not sure I entirely agree, but he argues it well. The problem is that the bit of culture that actually makes money is pop culture. If we get what he wants Covent Garden'll be doing musicals based on One Direction songs six nights a week with a prestige piece the seventh and Heffer'll have kittens at the dumbing down of it all...
__________________
Standard disclaimer: the disgusting statements contained in this post are the views of the poster, and unless specified do not represent the views of the moderators or the site's owners.
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 08-05-11, 05:30 PM
Gilles de Rais's Avatar
Moderator
 

Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 7,639
Default

Originally Posted by Zichao View Post
There has been a long-running debate, at times quite heated, about public funding of the arts. One popular argument goes: why should bus drivers pay taxes to subsidise rich people to attend an opera at Covent Garden? (This assumes that no bus driver supports the opera; I prefer to believe that is not true.)
I think that's generally true, no matter what you prefer to believe.

Quote:
The counter-argument runs something like this: putting on plays, art exhibitions, concerts, making films and, indeed, staging operas is so expensive that without public subsidy, it often wouldn’t happen, and if it didn’t, we would be a nation of boors (and, quite possibly, bores too).
Actually, that's correct as well. It wouldn't happen without public money and you are still a boorish nation. Then again, so is pretty much everyone else.

It's not so much as a genuinely two sided argument as both sides being correct.

Quote:
If whatever these organisations are producing is of real merit and worth they will, like the LPO, find patrons in the private sector...
If it was of real merit, surely, investors would invest because consumers would be willing to pay?

Quote:
The difficult part of the arts subsidy argument is one of quality control (...) Much of what they produced was of the Left-wing, self-hating variety, whose existence reminds us of one of the reasons why the contemporary French cinema is so much better than our own.
Clearly, we are not watching the same French cinema. Most of it is trite shite, just like the English cinema, with a few gems from time to time, just like the English cinema.

Quote:
and there has to be some element of subsidy if the thing is to be done at all. Spectacles are expensive.
Hollywood and Bollywood manage. Even if you were to take their tax breaks away, they'd manage...but that, of course, is what Zichao said: Dumbing down...

Quote:
How, some say, can what is commercially successful be equated with what is an artistic achievement?
That's a weird question. The two things don't exist in the same plane. Artistic merit is vague and down to a person's taste. If enough persons share that taste, art can be commercially successful. That's it. No one would suggest that 'Dallas' and 'Dynasty' or 'Melrose Place', let alone their Brazilian or Eastern European knock-offs had/have much artistic merit (although I am sure you could argue that point) but they were commercially successful.

Proust (which I would argue is without artistic merit but I would be in a minority) had to self-publish...
__________________
Unless otherwise specified, I am posting as a regular poster. When I will act as a mod, I'll make sure you're in no doubt.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 08-05-11, 06:12 PM
Zichao's Avatar
Moderator
 

Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 9,037
Default

Originally Posted by Gilles de Rais View Post
It wouldn't happen without public money and you are still a boorish nation.
Hahahahahaha! *OH SNAP*
__________________
Standard disclaimer: the disgusting statements contained in this post are the views of the poster, and unless specified do not represent the views of the moderators or the site's owners.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 08-05-11, 09:43 PM
AnonymousIdiotSavant's Avatar
Senior Member
 

Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,089
Default

Whats with the QQ?

Isn't part of the allure of "real" art its exclusivity? Poor people can't afford it and can only view it if some charitable aristocrat donates a piece to a museum (with a nice tax deduction).

Take out the subsidy and it just makes it and the people who own it even more special. And isn't that the most important thing after all? Owning a piece of someone's talent and creativity and thus enhancing your own character.
__________________
Righteousness will always be the trap at the gates of hell
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 08-05-11, 09:57 PM
Zichao's Avatar
Moderator
 

Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 9,037
Default

Fair point. At the moment I want a Pascal Montandon for my office. I could quite easily (and cheaply) fake one myself, but it wouldn't be the same.

[If it is the same for you, my prices are very reasonable. PM me.]
__________________
Standard disclaimer: the disgusting statements contained in this post are the views of the poster, and unless specified do not represent the views of the moderators or the site's owners.
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 09-05-11, 03:41 AM
LiberalNation's Avatar
Senior Member
 

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: KY, USA
Posts: 1,199
Default

by your prices being reasonable do you happen to mean free with free shipping. Maybe even like on those storage unit shows where they auction them off and sometimes find a bunch of cash taped behind a picture frame.
__________________
Give unto Caesar that what is Caesar's, and lie like hell to keep as much of the rest of your shit as you can.

"If you want something said ask a man...if you want something done, ask a woman" Margaret Thatcher
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 09-05-11, 07:12 AM
AnonymousIdiotSavant's Avatar
Senior Member
 

Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,089
Default

Abstract blah... the colors are nice, and I do kind of like it, but really not a conversation starter or much to contemplate while waiting to be taken care of.

Was thinking something a bit more... vibrant

__________________
Righteousness will always be the trap at the gates of hell
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 09-05-11, 09:01 AM
Gilles de Rais's Avatar
Moderator
 

Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 7,639
Default

Originally Posted by AnonymousIdiotSavant View Post
Abstract blah... the colors are nice, and I do kind of like it, but really not a conversation starter or much to contemplate while waiting to be taken care of.
My feelings exactly. It's nice and all... but there's not much to it, is it?

Quote:
Was thinking something a bit more... vibrant...
Well, your stuff would certainly lead to a lot of comments in any office...
__________________
Unless otherwise specified, I am posting as a regular poster. When I will act as a mod, I'll make sure you're in no doubt.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 09-05-11, 09:11 AM
Zichao's Avatar
Moderator
 

Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 9,037
Default

Originally Posted by Gilles de Rais View Post
My feelings exactly. It's nice and all... but there's not much to it, is it?
Well I wouldn't have been able to come up with it myself. I can do a cheapo, less good copy, but that's all. I've got no imagination.

At the moment I've got a copy of Ara umi ya. There's not much to that either, and it doesn't even have the merit of being original.
__________________
Standard disclaimer: the disgusting statements contained in this post are the views of the poster, and unless specified do not represent the views of the moderators or the site's owners.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 09-05-11, 09:15 AM
Zichao's Avatar
Moderator
 

Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 9,037
Default

And in that translation it should say "rough sea", not "rough seal". Though the second version is appealingly Alice-in-Wonderland.

I got given a document the other day in which Mark Stanhope was described as "the First Seal Lord"...
__________________
Standard disclaimer: the disgusting statements contained in this post are the views of the poster, and unless specified do not represent the views of the moderators or the site's owners.
Reply With Quote
Reply


(View-All Members who have read this thread : 5
AnonymousIdiotSavant, FredFredson, Gilles de Rais, LiberalNation, Zichao
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 06:29 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2012, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0